Promethean Alchemist Archetype and Visionary Researcher Archetype


Rules Questions

Dark Archive

Can they both be taken at once?
Promethean Alchemist replaces bombs, mutagen, Throw Anything, and Brew Potion, whilst Visionary Researcher replaces poison use and swift alchemy.

The bit that confuses me is that Promethean Alchemist specifies that a Promethean Alchemist cannot take the mutagen or cognatogen discoveries, and the Visionary Researcher's primary ability is

Inner Sea Magic wrote:

Experimental Mutagen (Su)

At 2nd level, a visionary researcher learns how to create an experimental mutagen that benefits others, though not as well as his normal mutagen. The experimental mutagen works just like a standard mutagen, except the natural armor bonus and the alchemical bonus to the ability score are half normal (+1 natural armor bonus and +2 to one ability score). The experimental mutagen has no risk of nauseating a creature who drinks it. The researcher decides when he creates the mutagen if it is a standard mutagen (which gives no benefit if another creature drinks it) or an experimental mutagen (which does); there is no difference in the cost, time to create, or any other aspect of the mutagen. If the researcher has discoveries or other abilities that alter or increase the benefits of the mutagen, these apply to the experimental mutagen (though the drinker only gets half the numerical bonus of the mutagen).

This ability replaces poison use.

I'm not sure how this would work.


You can Take both as neither one replaces the same class ability. and the Promethean says you cant take discoveries. this just means your Mutagen will always be what it was when you first get it. you wont be able to enhance it with Grand Mutagen, Greater Mutagen. etc.

So yes they work together.

Edit: This also means that you cant take the cognatogen discovery and are limited only to physical enhancement mutagens.

Dark Archive

Alric Rahl wrote:

You can Take both as neither one replaces the same class ability. and the Promethean says you cant take discoveries. this just means your Mutagen will always be what it was when you first get it. you wont be able to enhance it with Grand Mutagen, Greater Mutagen. etc.

So yes they work together.

Edit: This also means that you cant take the cognatogen discovery and are limited only to physical enhancement mutagens.

That's about what I thought, I jsut thought it best to check with people who have more experience and know more about Pathfinder than I do.

Thank you for your time.


Craig Tierney wrote:
Alric Rahl wrote:

You can Take both as neither one replaces the same class ability. and the Promethean says you cant take discoveries. this just means your Mutagen will always be what it was when you first get it. you wont be able to enhance it with Grand Mutagen, Greater Mutagen. etc.

So yes they work together.

Edit: This also means that you cant take the cognatogen discovery and are limited only to physical enhancement mutagens.

That's about what I thought, I jsut thought it best to check with people who have more experience and know more about Pathfinder than I do.

Thank you for your time.

No Problem. and one last note. You don't lose Bombs. You actually still get those. You just lose the Throw Anything feat, which is the ability to add Int to the damage to Splash weapons. your Bombs will still do 1d6+int damage + 1d6 every odd level.

EDIT: people might dispute the int to damage though, and its open for debate because the Bomb class feature says right in the description that they add their Int to damage, but the Throw Anything feat says "This bonus damage is already included in bombs", and since you lose Throw Anything, its possible that people will say you lose the int to damage. so that will be the GM's call on if you still get the int to damage for your bombs.


The companion replaces bombs and mutagens. The only discoveries you can't take are the mutagen and cognatogen ones. So you can take the greater variants of mutagen if you got it from somewhere else.

Dark Archive

Alric Rahl wrote:
Craig Tierney wrote:
Alric Rahl wrote:

You can Take both as neither one replaces the same class ability. and the Promethean says you cant take discoveries. this just means your Mutagen will always be what it was when you first get it. you wont be able to enhance it with Grand Mutagen, Greater Mutagen. etc.

So yes they work together.

Edit: This also means that you cant take the cognatogen discovery and are limited only to physical enhancement mutagens.

That's about what I thought, I jsut thought it best to check with people who have more experience and know more about Pathfinder than I do.

Thank you for your time.

No Problem. and one last note. You don't lose Bombs. You actually still get those. You just lose the Throw Anything feat, which is the ability to add Int to the damage to Splash weapons. your Bombs will still do 1d6+int damage + 1d6 every odd level.

EDIT: people might dispute the int to damage though, and its open for debate because the Bomb class feature says right in the description that they add their Int to damage, but the Throw Anything feat says "This bonus damage is already included in bombs", and since you lose Throw Anything, its possible that people will say you lose the int to damage. so that will be the GM's call on if you still get the int to damage for your bombs.

No, you do lose bombs, or at least that's what it has in my printing.

Occult Adventures wrote:


Homunculus Companion (Ex): At 1st level, a promethean
alchemist gains the service of a homunculus companion. The
means for creating this special homunculus are more exotic
than normal and require investiture of the promethean
alchemist’s own life essence into the homunculus. This
construct generally resembles a small humanoid or child
when first created; the specific appearance is up to its
creator, though a homunculus is always humanoid in shape
and obviously unnatural on close inspection. While every
homunculus companion is absolutely devoted to its master,
some homunculi’s loyalty borders on the unsettling; such
companions jealously protect their masters from threats
or construct strange shrines in their masters’ honor. A
homunculus companion can be of any alignment, even one
that is different from its master’s. A destroyed homunculus
companion can be restored to life by performing a ritual
with its corpse that requires 1 pint of its creator’s blood per
Hit Die of the homunculus and rare materials worth 100 gp
per Hit Die of the homunculus. Performing this ritual takes
1 hour (though it may take some time to gather enough
blood at higher levels, so many promethean alchemists keep
chilled blood samples in storage just in case). A promethean
alchemist can’t take the mutagen or cognatogen discoveries.
This ability replaces bombs and mutagen.

Dark Archive

Maximilian Gaston wrote:
The companion replaces bombs and mutagens. The only discoveries you can't take are the mutagen and cognatogen ones. So you can take the greater variants of mutagen if you got it from somewhere else.

I interpreted that as saying you couldn't take any of the discoveries with mutagen or cognatogen in their name.

Designer

Oenopion Researcher archetype clearly alters mutagen (it even mentions applying other effects that alter mutagen, talks about it being a reduced version of "his normal mutagen," and directly says "The researcher decides when he creates the mutagen if it is a standard mutagen (which gives no benefit if another creature drinks it) or an experimental mutagen (which does)"); it looks like it was from before it became standard to flag when an archetype does so.

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