I'm building a world to game in (who isn't?) and I could use some input.
Law/Chaos for an axis with two extremes. In one end, you have pure Law and in the other pure Chaos. As you move towards the middle of the axis these prime forces of the cosmos mix - you get neutrality. Good/Evil works the same way.
In my world's cosmos I want two more such axes of opposing, eternal and objective forces (unless someone asks, I'm not going to bother you with why I want that).
One of these is Future/Past or Fate/Origin. This axis is very hard to grasp, that's intentional. Time, while appearing as a fundamental law on the material plane, means nothing in the cosmos.
But I'm struggling with finding a forth axis. I though about something concerning magic. Two »sides» of magic, mixing to »neutral« on the material plane and employed as arcane magic. But I can't think of a good way to distinguish them. It's important that this axis is distinct, and don't overlap with another axis or say elements or positive/negative energy.
I saw Unchained suggesting »Radiant« and »Shadow« as just place-holder names for two not closer described forces used to replace alignments. But what is »Radiant magic« as opposed by »Shadow magic«?
Radiant magic might refer to positive energy and/or to light, but isn't a well defined idea in PF as it currently stands. You'd have to do some work, but that's true of any such realignment of the game world.
Other ideas
Nature vs. Civilization
Creation vs. Destruction (which can be, but doesn't have to be, positive/negative energy)
Mind vs. Body
Substance vs. Illusion
Truth vs. Lies (may be confused with previous duality)
Duality vs. Shades of Grey
Or if all else fails ...
Cats vs. Dogs
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An easy way to have multiple opposing axis is to go old-school with the schools of magic and make it so that when you choose one specialization, you're forced to give up the opposing school.
Or you could just have it be Arcane vs Divine. Perhaps the gods generally don't like arcane casters because it's the caster imposing their will upon the world, while divine casting is really the god imposing their will upon the world THROUGH the caster.
Stasis vs Change?
Or does that overlap with Law/Chaos in your interpretation?
Life vs Death
Reason vs Emotion
Reason vs emotion (stranger) and have emotion aligned people use words of power. With some additional flavor.
Stasis vs Change?
Or does that overlap with Law/Chaos in your interpretation?
Hm. I don't know. Seems kind of hard to have gods and outsiders connected to Stasis and then have them, you know, do stuff.
Reason vs emotion (stranger) and have emotion aligned people use words of power. With some additional flavor.
Reason/emotion occurred briefly in my head too, and since it has been mention here twice it might be a good idea.
Emotion-aligned people (and, outsiders etc.) using words of power? Are you referring to the ancient and trans-cultural concept of certain words and phrases being powerful magic, you are referring to a subsystem or something within Pathfinder?
Stasis vs Change?
Or does that overlap with Law/Chaos in your interpretation?
Hm. I don't know. Seems kind of hard to have gods and outsiders connected to Stasis and then have them, you know, do stuff.
You could have them prevent changes (like friction hinders movement), or react to changes to try and undo them.
Stasis vs Change?
Or does that overlap with Law/Chaos in your interpretation?
Hm. I don't know. Seems kind of hard to have gods and outsiders connected to Stasis and then have them, you know, do stuff.
Reason vs emotion (stranger) and have emotion aligned people use words of power. With some additional flavor.Reason/emotion occurred briefly in my head too, and since it has been mention here twice it might be a good idea.
Emotion-aligned people (and, outsiders etc.) using words of power? Are you referring to the ancient and trans-cultural concept of certain words and phrases being powerful magic, you are referring to a subsystem or something within Pathfinder?
Words of power are an alternative magic system from Ultimate Magic. Instead of learning spells you learn words that can be combined to create spells. Personally I think the words of power would be more suitable to reason than emotion. Reason implies a scientific method that would seem better suited to the idea of construction spells from base components.
Words of power are an alternative magic system from Ultimate Magic. Instead of learning spells you learn words that can be combined to create spells. Personally I think the words of power would be more suitable to reason than emotion. Reason implies a scientific method that would seem better suited to the idea of construction spells from base components.
I think it can go either way, depending on GM preference and how it is described in the setting.
Compared to words of power, spells are far more rigid. Perhaps that's because they are products of the scientific method. Through painstaking and costly spell research, an exact formula has been discovered that provides a certain effect. It is inflexible; without more research, you cannot create a Cone of Fire, even if you know how to cast both Cone of Cold and Fireball. But, it is reliable and easier to teach to students, such as adventurers, who have not invested enough time to earn a full PhD in the magical arts.
Words of Power, on the other hand, come without form. You understand a set of primal building blocks, such as the burning rage of Flame Jet, or the cold uncaring of Cold Snap. By learning to shape and combine those emotions, however, you can create a variety of effects, both in terms of areas affected and results. There is some danger, however, as without enough care and discipline over your emotion, some effects may prove ineffective (like mixing an instantaneous effect word with a duration effect word). In the heat of battle, this could prove to be your undoing.
Or...
Spells are a method of channeling your inner emotions to enact change in the world around you. The methods required to cause these emotional responses at will, regardless of the situation, have their drawbacks, however. Many casters find themselves locked into a certain way of thinking or rely heavily on the same memory triggers between castings. This leads to spells being surprisingly predictable for a particular caster, but many consider the comparatively easily reached raw power of emotion to be a more accessible path to magic than spending decades learning the minutiae of the natural world. For the most powerful of casters, if you simply Wish for something hard enough, reality will reshape itself to meet your demands.
Meanwhile, Words of Power are the product of true understanding. By learning to break down the world around you into its most base components, you can rearrange them to produce the exact effect you desire. While in some ways, this is less powerful than channeling the purity of emotion, it is an ordered approach to magic that allows for extreme flexibility. Indeed, some scholars suggest that any power disparity between the use of Words and Spells simply highlights areas where we lack complete and accurate knowledge of the science of magic. Give sufficient research, perhaps even the components of a Wish could be found.
I must say I'm impressed with the response I've gotten so far in this thread. It's not a simple subject, at least in my mind, and I found it hard to phrase my thoughts and wonderings in a way others would understand.
Regarding words of power and an reason/emotion axis, I'll have to think about it. I dislike the concept of magic being the science in a pseudo-medieval world bereft of actual science. But that concept is already a huge part of Pathfinder, so with so many things in the game I just have to accept it.
This new alignment axis touches blue and orange morality and while I struggle to formulate two opposing moral standings that doesn’t coincide with either Good/Evil or Law/Chaos that TV tropes article got me thinking in other directions.
Perhaps this axis, which might have most to do with arcane magic, can be imaged as to opposing colours (a fantasy trope to say the least) and deities, outsiders etc. corresponding two one of the colours can be given a set of flavours (that are the opposite of the flavours of the other colours, but aren't actually colours). Or, instead of colours, the opposing forces may be colour/grey-scale. Or black-and-white/grey-scale.
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If you don't want to develop a bunch of new options, you could have faith and reason be Wisdom-based and Int-based casters (with Charisma in the middle). Or, on the same axis, divine on one side, arcane on the other, and psychic in the middle.
You could also go for mental vs. physical, with pure thought effects on one side and elemental effects on the other. So charm person vs. fireball.
Which I think plays into the "blue and orange morality" aspect well. Solving problems through mental force is better in that it doesn't kill people, but worse in that it corrupts their very thoughts. Taking a strong stand on that is novel compared to how Pathfinder magic normally works.
Cheers!
Landon
If I was to do this, I would start by breaking apart law/chaos into law/anarchy and discipline/wild or something similar to that.
I like the idea of divine/arcane as it was listed above.
Some other ideas.
Magic/Physical
Divine/Atheist