Zen archer does best by staying single classed. Unless you have something you're specifically after I highly suggest you just stay a zen archer.
A single dip in Cleric gets you two domains, which could be very handy, and access to cool wands and scrolls potentially. Or a dip into the Sorcerer that uses empyrean as bloodline gets you something similar. Both cases has your main stat powering spells.
That said, it's probably more optimized just to keep the Zen Archer goodies coming without a level delay.
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The best class to add to Zen Archer is more Zen Archer.
The only thing I could potentially see dipping for is a level of warpriest so that you can get the air blessing (no penalty for range increments) and access to most cleric spell wands. The other bonus of cleric or war priest in archery builds, making them SAD with guided hand feat, doesn't apply here because you already get it from zen. Maybe, MAAAAAAYBE you could go hunter for access to gravity bow if you are already pushing the enlarged weapon dice but I doubt that is worth it.
What about dipping 3 lvls unto rouge or ninja for the sneak attack damage could add up with flurry of blows
That would be highly dependent upon how nice your DM is. Not worth the risk.
I would rather gamble in Vegas.
A composite longbow has a range of 110'. How often do you actually need to shoot farther than that?
Ship to ship combat happens a lot in some adventures
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Yeah but if I stay within 30 ft of the target I get the sneak attack damage so I dont see it as a trap
You only get the sneak attack damage if they are not aware of you or denied their dex bonus to AC against you. You cannot rely on flanking, as there is no flanking with ranged attacks. This means without sniping (reducing you to one attack per round without your flurry bonus), or a way of gaining always on total concealment, you will only get one ranged sneak attack per combat, if you win initiative. It's a trap.
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A composite longbow has a range of 110'. How often do you actually need to shoot farther than that?Strix can fly. Any time he's out of doors, he can choose to fly at a height far enough away that the opponents cannot mount any effective ranged or spell attacks against him while raining down archery doom, unaffected by the range.
Alternatively he can use stealth/sniping at a long enough range that the opponent has no real chance of identifying or locating the Archer (remember, the DC to perception increases by 1 for every 10' of distance to that which you are trying to perceive), but suffer no negative affects for shooting, himself.
That's a valid point, but I think it's still better to just take far shot in those situations. The air power is only good for a few encounters per day, and you are delaying access to all your good ZA high level abilities.
Remember, after your first arrow, the cat is out of the bag so to speak. They become aware of your presence.
Correct
I see so sneak attack damage is applied only to the first attack and not the whole errata
Sort of, but not really.
Sneak attack can apply to all attacks you make in a round, but the enemy must be denied dex bonus to AC against you or when you are flanking the target.
Ranged attacks cannot benefit from flanking ever, so you are limited only to situations where the target is denied dex to AC against you.
Stealth breaks when you make your first attack, unless you are sniping. When stealth breaks, the attacks afterwards do not benefit from being hidden and the enemy is no longer denied dex. For sniping you only get to make one attack (and you could deal more damage from a full attack without sneak attack than you could with sneak attack on 1 attack).
Vanishing Trick is like the spell invisibility, but shorter duration. Invisibility breaks after you make an attack, so same scenario as stealth. Vanish (the spell) is basically the same, though ninjas don't actually get access to that.
Greater Invisibility is about the only way you can get a full attack and get sneak attack damage on every hit (without flanking or feats that don't apply to ranged attacks).
In short, trying to build a sneak attacking archer is an exercise in futility. You will never be able to use it enough for it to be a worthwhile investment.
Anyone bother mentioning that if you're playing in Golarion that Strix are generally Kill On Sight in most human lands?
No, he wasn't asking for that.
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In short, trying to build a sneak attacking archer is an exercise in futility. You will never be able to use it enough for it to be a worthwhile investment.
In general I totally agree. I will point out - a buddy with Greater Feint can change that entirely.
My buddy and I once planned out (the campaign fell through - so never worked it) - a ranged ninja & tanky bard working towards Greater Feint. The idea was for the bard to not worry about dealing damage and just buff & make targets lose dex to AC.
Admittedly - some argue that Greater Feint doesn't work that way - but it certainly works by RAW.
Yeah, I fall into the category of "not intended to work that way" so that would very much be a case of Your Mileage May Very. It should be something your verify with your GM before pursuing it.
Of course, at that point you'll also investing two characters into allow one to successfully sneak attack at range so it's still not really an optimal tactic. But if a GM agreed with your interpretation of how Greater Feint worked then it could be viable. Especially on classes that don't require lots of feats.
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Of course, at that point you'll also investing to characters into allow one to successfully sneak attack at range so it's still not really an optimal tactic. But if a GM agreed with your interpretation of how Greater Feint worked then it could be viable. Especially on classes that don't require lots of feats.
I'm with you - combo-ing with a melee bard is really the only other class I could see it working with optimally. Their job isn't really to deal damage anyway, so they aren't giving up too much by not swinging their iteratives.
The Mist Assassin is usually the best method to make it work, but it's not very team-friendly, unless you buy Goz Masks for everyone.
In setting, aren't Goz masks actually supposed to be pretty rare and coveted by Gozreh's faithful?
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The Mist Assassin is usually the best method to make it work, but it's not very team-friendly, unless you buy Goz Masks for everyone.In setting, aren't Goz masks actually supposed to be pretty rare and coveted by Gozreh's faithful?
Rare, yes. But they are only really coveted by the remnants of the Storm Kindlers, who were pretty much all wiped out.
Rare, yes. But they are only really coveted by the remnants of the Storm Kindlers, who were pretty much all wiped out.The Mist Assassin is usually the best method to make it work, but it's not very team-friendly, unless you buy Goz Masks for everyone.In setting, aren't Goz masks actually supposed to be pretty rare and coveted by Gozreh's faithful?
Yeah, I've never really cared for the idea of how all these sneak attacking classes have this magic item that is dedicated to one deity that is supposed to be rare, but they all have it and use UMD with wands of obscuring mist to get of all their sneak attacks.
Not that I want to punish rogues, but I also like my campaign setting to match up with the lore as much as possible. I don't really like the idea of a PC just buying one at market, or crafting a facsimile.
As a side note, do we know what wiped them out? I know it was something in the Eye of Abendago but I don't know more. I played through Skull and Shackles, and you sail through a snippet of the Eye which but you don't really learn any of the secrets of it.
There are other ways to get the ability to see through mist though. A waves oracle or storm druid dip does the job, and gives the ability to cast the spell too.
That's true. That gives me reason to restrict the availability of Goz Masks, because I can tell them that a single level dip will grant them the ability they want (if they cannot expect to easily obtain one).
Actually I really liked Charon's idea of a bard teaming up with a rogue, because the bard could go flamer dancer archtype. That way the entire party can see through the fog while the Bard feints. if Fog is not necessary, the bard can inspire courage and buff the entire party while still setting up the SA with feints. That seems like some pretty good utility.
As far as seeing through fog goes, there is the item "Fogcutting Lenses" which do the same thing, but apply a -4 penalty to perception. If you disallow the Goz, you should at least allow that item.
As far as the OP is concerned: Yes, there are a select few ways to get SA at range (dirty tricks with the bounty hunter slayer can cause blindness and thus give the rest of your attacks SA, concealment that doesn't effect you like obscuring mist with items/abilities or silent image if you are clever and they fail their will save, ect) but usually these take planning or resources to build towards. For those types of builds, you only see a return if you invest a lot into it. Otherwise, you are far more rewarded for choosing a different profession.
Sniper Goggles 20,000 gp; SA from any range; +2 circ SA damage/die if in 30'
/cevah
Edit: close bonus is extra damage