[PFS] TWF Quarterstaff Witch


Advice

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I had a previous thread with the same sort of concept, but I've done a lot of rethinking, so I want to start this fresh.

The concept is to make a mono-classed Witch into a TWF melee powerhouse. Here's the planned progression:

Human Witch
17/15/14/14/10/7
Traits: Reactionary, Fate's Favored
Patron: Strength
FCB: +hp
Familiar: Armadillo (+1 nat armor) (Protector archetype)
1: Two-Weapon Fighting, Toughness, healing hex
2: divine favor patron spell, flight hex
3: Weapon Focus (quarterstaff)
4: +1 Str, ward hex
5: Arcane Strike
6: greater magic weapon patron spell, water lung hex
7: Double Slice
8: +1 Dex, divine power patron spell, fortune hex
9: Dodge
10: ??? major hex
11: ???

Key buff spells:
1: divine favor, mage armor
2: false life, defending bone
3: heroism, greater magic weapon
4: divine power, threefold aspect

Between 14 Con, Toughness, the FCB, false life, and eventually threefold aspect, he should have enough HP to survive as a melee combatant.

The familiar gives +1 AC, and the Protector archetype gives it Combat Reflexes and Bodyguard, which it can use without threatening the attacker. I can also outfit it with benevolent armor (since I won't need any for myself) to boost the AC bonus from aiding. Unfortunately, it has a low attack bonus (I think it should be -1, but the stat block lists it at +0). I could use the Beast-Bonded archetype to let it take Weapon Finesse, which will be an effective +5, but that means giving up one of my few feats.

Between heroism, divine favor/power, and Arcane Strike, I should be able to keep my attack and damage bonuses up at a good level (at level 6, I'll be attacking at +11/+11 for 1d6+11/8, even without heroism), and the money I save on armor and weapons can go toward other defense-boosting items.

Any other thoughts or tweaks?

Dark Archive

I would say skip TWF and just 2-hand the staff. Or get a longspear if witches get that for free. Or maybe just go hapf orc for delicious falchion. Pulling out all the stops might make a 1/2 BAB class serviceable in melee but you don't have the accuracy to afford the TWF penalty. Plus that lets you start with 14 dex instead. Power Attack and Furious Focus mean you will have decent single hits for a long while, at least.

Hexwise, consider getting Scar in there so you can easily save lives with healing hex. I know my witch is personally responsible for two PFS characters still being alive thanks to that trick.


Would it hurt your idea too much to be a Shaman? +1/4 BAB is worth the loss of Arcane Strike. Or there's that Hexcrafter Magus. Things like Oracle mysteries that provide armor are good, too.

Otherwise, you seem to get what you're doing. It won't ever be a battle cleric, but if you're determined to make a 1/2 BAB meleer, I'm not stopping you.

The Exchange

Combine staff magus with hexcrafter. You get some cool quarterstaff goodies free. Spell blend for heroism.

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Just a Mort wrote:
Combine staff magus with hexcrafter. You get some cool quarterstaff goodies free. Spell blend for heroism.

I don't want to do a magus, because the idea is to do this all while keeping the power and utility of a full 9-level spellcaster. Plus, I already have a magus.

My Self wrote:
Would it hurt your idea too much to be a Shaman?

Hmm. Two big parts of the original concept were to turn an otherwise squishy arcane caster into a competent melee character, and to leverage the flat damage bonuses from Arcane Strike and divine favor to make TWF viable.

...but a Battle Shaman could get free Weapon Specialization at 8, plus Bane a couple of times per day, and better BAB and hp. And the Speaker for the Past archetype would get me some juicy revelations (Blood of Heroes, Temporal Celerity, Time Hop), plus heroism on my spell list. Add in the Human FCB, and I can pick up divine favor at 3rd and greater magic weapon at 9th. Seems like a big power boost, while still being a 9-level caster. Hmm...


You'll want wayang spell hunter for divine favor, quicken favor in your fourth level slots is nice

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CWheezy wrote:
You'll want wayang spell hunter for divine favor, quicken favor in your fourth level slots is nice

A possibility, but I plan on using 4th-level slots for divine power. Also, I may save up for a Staff of the Master to use as my weapon, which would let me metamagic without increasing the spell level.

Scarab Sages

There is absolutely no reason to take double slice unless you are also planning on picking up two weapon rend. Assuming you have a 20 STR, double slice is a +2 to damage on one attack in a full attack. It's just really not worth the feat when you could put it elsewhere for more benefit.

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Imbicatus wrote:
There is absolutely no reason to take double slice unless you are also planning on picking up two weapon rend. Assuming you have a 20 STR, double slice is a +2 to damage on one attack in a full attack. It's just really not worth the feat when you could put it elsewhere for more benefit.

Well, it's +3 damage at 20 Strength, but I see your point. What feats would be better choices?

Scarab Sages

If you have a ready way of applying bleed damage or fear or pain effects, consider worshiping ZK for Cruelty. +2 to hit and damage for a round whenever you apply those effects is great and will help overcome your half BAB and TWF penalty.

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Imbicatus wrote:
If you have a ready way of applying bleed damage or fear or pain effects, consider worshiping ZK for Cruelty. +2 to hit and damage for a round whenever you apply those effects is great and will help overcome your half BAB and TWF penalty.

I don't know of any ways that don't involve casting another buff spell in combat, and I'm not a huge fan of Zon-Kuthon anyway...

Scarab Sages

Fair enough. You could switch from quarterstaff to daggers, and go Pharasma. Deific Obedience for +2 to hit all the time, and with river rat you'll actually do better damage than the staff thanks to a better crit modifier and ability to bypass material-based DR. You could also go finesse based with agile daggers. You could also go with a unchained rogue dip for dex to damage instead, but that would take away from your full caster focus.

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I hadn't considered daggers before; those are some good bonuses, but it does come at the cost of an extra greater magic weapon compared to a double weapon. And yeah, definitely no Rogue multiclass.


RainyDayNinja wrote:

Between heroism, divine favor/power, and Arcane Strike, I should be able to keep my attack and damage bonuses up at a good level (at level 6, I'll be attacking at +11/+11 for 1d6+11/8, even without heroism), and the money I save on armor and weapons can go toward other defense-boosting items.

Any other thoughts or tweaks?

Just brainstorming...

+3 BAB
+5 STR
+1 Weapon Focus
+3 Divine Favor
+1 Weapon
-2 TWF
-------------------
+11 to hit

+5 STR
+1 Weapon
+3 Divine Favor
+2 Arcane Strike
-------------------
1d6+11 damage

Standard Action:
+13 to hit for 1d6+13 damage

Full Round
+11 to hit for 1d6+11
+11 to hit for 1d6+8

This should be decent enough at level 6. Damage reduction will hurt a lot as you have no way past it at all? Your best "upgrade" for offense will likely be Boots of Speed and the Power Attack feat.

Your weaknesses will be losing your first action in combat and defenses. Do you have a plan for defenses yet? That'll be the make or break.

Did you compare to a transmutation wizard using a quarterstaff for an arcane bond? Building up a +5 quarterstaff for 25k (GMW the other end) gets past a lot of damage reduction. You pay for it a little to start by losing Divine Favor for higher STR and using Alter Self (Monstrous Physique, etc.) for extra STR, but in the end, it might prove out better due to that feature.

Level 7 Transmutation Wizard:

+3 BAB
+7 STR (18 STR Base +2 Enhancement +4 spell)
+1 Weapon Focus
+2 Weapon
-2 TWF
-------------------
+11 to hit

+7 STR
+2 Weapon
+2 Arcane Strike
-------------------
1d6+11 damage

Standard Action:
+13 to hit for 1d8+14 damage

Full Round
+11 to hit for 1d8+11
+10 to hit for 1d8+6

- enchant the staff with money spent on a STR belt
- uses one less spell slot for GMW
- initial combat buff lasts minutes per level vs rounds per level

Similar at this point...

Going forward, you have a path to penetrate damage reduction that you otherwise would not have.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
RainyDayNinja wrote:
I hadn't considered daggers before; those are some good bonuses, but it does come at the cost of an extra greater magic weapon compared to a double weapon. And yeah, definitely no Rogue multiclass.

You do realize that you need TWO spell casts of greater magic weapon? one for each head of a double weapon.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

If you're going to regularly full-attacking, you might want to pick up the Prehensile Hair Hex as well, to add a secondary Natural Attack (with Reach) to the mix.

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Rory wrote:
Did you compare to a transmutation wizard using a quarterstaff for an arcane bond?

Eh, maybe, but I'll be running into the Fame cap for upgrading my weapon. Also, the wizard is missing out on buffs like defending bone, threefold aspect, and divine power, which gives me an extra attack.

LazarX wrote:
You do realize that you need TWO spell casts of greater magic weapon? one for each head of a double weapon.

I know that's the rule for crafting magical double weapons, but I couldn't find anything that put that limit on casting spells on them. Can you point me to that rule?

pH unbalanced wrote:
If you're going to regularly full-attacking, you might want to pick up the Prehensile Hair Hex as well, to add a secondary Natural Attack (with Reach) to the mix.

Eh, maybe, but I'm not sure I like the visual.


RainyDayNinja wrote:
pH unbalanced wrote:
If you're going to regularly full-attacking, you might want to pick up the Prehensile Hair Hex as well, to add a secondary Natural Attack (with Reach) to the mix.
Eh, maybe, but I'm not sure I like the visual.

Prehensile hair isn't limited to the hair on your head. So you can have a beard that is also a fist.


RainyDayNinja wrote:
Rory wrote:
Did you compare to a transmutation wizard using a quarterstaff for an arcane bond?

Eh, maybe, but I'll be running into the Fame cap for upgrading my weapon. Also, the wizard is missing out on buffs like defending bone, threefold aspect, and divine power, which gives me an extra attack.

The Fame cap evaporates pretty quickly.

Level 7.0 - 36 Max Fame - +3 Staff vs. +1 GMW
Level 8.2 - 46 Max Fame - +4 Staff vs. +2 GMW
Level 9.1 - 50 Max Fame - +5 Staff vs. +2 GMW

Defending Bone is Wizard, so you are good there.

Threefold Aspect is lost, but you do gain Stoneskin, Shield, Mirror Image, Ablative Barrier, etc. to replace it. You can get a belt of DEX and/or CON as well since your STR is boosted via archetype.

Monstrous Physique II gives you +4 attacks potential (claw, claw, bite and gore) to go with your TWF staff attacks. A haste effect would add another staff attack thereafter.

Wizard may not be your cup of tea of course. Just trying to help brainstorm that melee squishy...

Scarab Sages

RainyDayNinja wrote:


LazarX wrote:
You do realize that you need TWO spell casts of greater magic weapon? one for each head of a double weapon.

I know that's the rule for crafting magical double weapons, but I couldn't find anything that put that limit on casting spells on them. Can you point me to that rule?

At the very best, you can expect table variation on this. The general rule is than unless there is a specific exception, double weapons are treated as two weapons for enhancements. See the inquisitor's Bane ability or a Warpriest's Sacred Weapon enhancements.

For an example of a specific exception that allows both ends to be enhanced, see the shillelagh spell.

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Rory wrote:
RainyDayNinja wrote:
Rory wrote:
Did you compare to a transmutation wizard using a quarterstaff for an arcane bond?

Eh, maybe, but I'll be running into the Fame cap for upgrading my weapon. Also, the wizard is missing out on buffs like defending bone, threefold aspect, and divine power, which gives me an extra attack.

The Fame cap evaporates pretty quickly.

Level 7.0 - 36 Max Fame - +3 Staff vs. +1 GMW
Level 8.2 - 46 Max Fame - +4 Staff vs. +2 GMW
Level 9.1 - 50 Max Fame - +5 Staff vs. +2 GMW

Defending Bone is Wizard, so you are good there.

Threefold Aspect is lost, but you do gain Stoneskin, Shield, Mirror Image, Ablative Barrier, etc. to replace it. You can get a belt of DEX and/or CON as well since your STR is boosted via archetype.

Monstrous Physique II gives you +4 attacks potential (claw, claw, bite and gore) to go with your TWF staff attacks. A haste effect would add another staff attack thereafter.

Wizard may not be your cup of tea of course. Just trying to help brainstorm that melee squishy...

Well, I may be using 4 levels of module credit from The Dragon's Demand on this character, so I'll have lower fame than otherwise expected. Plus, I still have to meet the level requirement of 3x the bonus; I think I can get around it by mixing bonuses and special abilities, though. Also, I'm working up another wizard, and I'd rather try another class. Thanks for the advice, though.


RainyDayNinja wrote:
Also, I'm working up another wizard, and I'd rather try another class.

'nuff said... the witch then...

A nifty thing to think about could be a spell storing quarterstaff. This can let you store something nifty to land for the first attack in a combat. Ill Omen, Vampiric Touch, Ray of Exhaustion, etc. can make for a nice opening move, to go along with your normal damage. And you can eventually double up spell storing on both ends to do it twice in a fight. Auto exhausting a BBEG could be a major debuff manuever.

Shilelagh from a cracked ioun stone can make a wonderful quarterstaff buff on the occasion you have the time to pre-buff. Getting it in there might require UMD though.

And of course stock up on Oils of Align Weapon (300gp) and Versatile Weapon (750gp) for when that DR gets in the way too much.

Scarab Sages

Rory wrote:


And of course stock up on Oils of Align Weapon (300gp) and Versatile Weapon (750gp) for when that DR gets in the way too much.

Oil of Bless weapon is 50 gold, Bypasses more DR than Align Weapon, and auto-confirms critical hits vs evil creatures. Much more bang for the buck than align weapon unless you are in the odd occurrence of fighting proteans.

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