|
How do you do it?
My PCs just acquired a significant load of treasure, and are now 4th level, meaning they should be looking to make some big purchases on the ol' Marketplace. I plan on running this (mostly) by the book, and am curious how others do it. Our adventure takes place in a metropolis, we are on the 2nd book of the Adventure Path (of six), I use the Automatic Bonus Progression variant rule (Unchained), and I use Prestige Points from Ultimate Campaign. Ideally, I'd like a system that has some interactivity with all these pieces and rewards investment in odd skills like Appraise, etc.
The limit for a metropolis is $16k, meaning that they have access to virtually any "minor" magic item (75% chance), and that I should roll up 4d4 "medium" and 3d4 "major" items. Great. My questions are these:
1) What is the "period" or "frequency" of the 75% availability?
2) Similarly, how often should "specialty" items on the medium/major list turnover?
Cheers.
I'm not sure how to answer your questions.
I roll up items when the party browses the marketplace. Any item 10k or higher needs to be purchased at an auction or from a specialized dealer. The best approach is hiring a broker.
If they want to find something specific, they can roll an Appraise, Knowledge (local), Diplomacy, or Profession (merchant) check to find it. A DC 15 + CL check, with some adjustments
|
|
I like your 15+CL check.
I guess what I'm looking for is a way that I can systematize this, using the rules in the CRB, so that my players can know what to expect to a certain extent. Two things I don't want to do is to spend a lot of time in-game shopping or simply give them full access to anything they can afford. But, I am more than happy to prepare a decent list of stuff ahead of time.
For example, say I generated a list of (4d4) 10 "medium" items and (3d4) 8 "major" items:
1) Should this list of specialty items remain the list for the duration of book two? One session?
2) When it comes time to change, do I roll up a whole new list? Do some items stay? Which ones?
I usually roll every time the party spends a day browsing the marketplace. For a sufficiently large city, what they find each day will differ.
Yes, but normally, the party doesn't spend more than 1 day browsing unless they're looking for something specific. In that case, they can make the skill check.
Yes, they can make one check per day.
|
|
I think I'll take your Find Specialty Item skill DC, but instead of CL (Caster Level), scale the DC to a half proportion of WBL (Wealth by level). "Half" because that is the highest value single-item a new character can start out with if starting higher than 1st level, and the numbers also correspond to the half-WBL consequence of using the Automatic Bonus Progression.
Find Specialty Item
$
less (DC 20)
250
500
1,500
3,000
5,250 (DC 25)
8,000
11,750
16,500
23,000
31,000 (DC 30)
41,000
54,000
70,000
92,500
120,000 (DC 35)
157,500
205,000
265,000
342,500
440,000 (DC 40)
I'm thinking one skill check takes an hour (once per day, as suggested), and taking 20 requires 2 full days. What do you guys think?
|
|
Ok.
So I am thinking about having three levels of availability, based off the rules for "Purchasing Magic Items" in the CRB (p460).
1) Commonly available items
2) Uncommon items currently in circulation
3) Rare items held by collectors or otherwise difficult to acquire
Common
These will be the items listed as "Base Value" items from Table 15-1 in the CRB (p461) that have a 75% availability on a weekly basis. If the buyer rolls poorly, he or she may attempt to acquire the item as if it were a Rare item instead of waiting a week to try again.
Uncommon
These will be the featured "Minor," "Medium," and "Major" items from Table 15-1. I think I will roll for them once per book in the Adventure Path, and each time the PCs buy one of these items, I will replace the "slot" with a new item.
Rare
Items not Commonly or Uncommonly available which the PCs desire will comprise this group. I am going to adopt the skill check (as Cyrad suggested) for this group, using my DCs generated in the post above this one (20+WBL). I'm thinking I will allow the PCs to make this check once per week representing an hour of work, or, if taking 20, two full 10-hour days spent looking. I am considering having success on this roll, instead of merely granting the item instantly and at market rate, have some sort of final skill challenge that determines both of these final variables.
Any ideas out there?
Another option is to let your players place an order for any item they can't find to be made. So they can't have it right away, but they will be able to get what they want.
I actually really like the way the settlement rules are written. for any magic items below the settlement's base value, there is a 75% chance the characters can find it for sale.
For items above the base value, it's totally random what is there. This is a great resource to figure this out:
http://mcmustard.com/pf_items/index.html
What sticking to the randomness does is two-fold.
First, it inspires the players to adapt and work with what they can find.
Second, it increases the utility of self-crafted items.
|
|
Oh I love randomness too (Thanks for the link!). You just described the "common" (75%) and "uncommon" (roll random) items as proposed.
All I really did was allow for items above and beyond these two groups to be accessible by creating the "rare" category. I might be caving to player entitlement, sure, but I figure, especially for a metropolis, and a buyer willing to pay up to twice the market value, almost any item could be acquired given enough time (and knowing the right "guy"). This still puts the advantage in the crafter's court, if mitigating the distance a little.
How often do you allow your PCs to use the generator? Once a day? week? session?
Oh I love randomness too (Thanks for the link!). You just described the "common" (75%) and "uncommon" (roll random) items as proposed.
All I really did was allow for items above and beyond these two groups to be accessible by creating the "rare" category. I might be caving to player entitlement, sure, but I figure, especially for a metropolis, and a buyer willing to pay up to twice the market value, almost any item could be acquired given enough time (and knowing the right "guy"). This still puts the advantage in the crafter's court, if mitigating the distance a little.
How often do you allow your PCs to use the generator? Once a day? week? session?
Per the settlement rules, the items below base value get a new check once a week. "There is a 75% chance that any item of this value or lower can be found for sale in the community with little effort. If an item is not available, a new check to determine if the item has become available can be made in 1 week." You'll notice that even in that rule they state "found for sale in the community with little effort". To me, this implies that effort can be made to find those items still, via some Knowledge (local) or Diplomacy checks.
Regarding the rare items, It would depend on the settlement, but I'd wager those items, being such high value compared to the surrounding wealth, are likely to sit on the 'store shelves' as it were for quite some time before moving. I can see maybe one for each die moving each week. So for a Small Town, up to 3 minor items and 1 medium item might change out each week. This is likely far quicker than would really happen, but this is erring on the side of utility to the players more than anything.
In the Kingdom Building rules, magic items stay in the slots until purchased, either by the PC's, by the kingdom, or by spending an economy point to encourage an NPC you buy it. They are populated based on the type of business that created that slot, so the results are more predictable (a thorpe that only has an inn and an herbalist in it is likely to just have potions and oils available, and no magic wands).
|
|
Thanks for the settlement and kingdom info. I think my version of the CRB has left out the "a new check... in 1 week" sentence. I double-checked and I'm not seeing it. Anyhow, I settled on weeks because it makes sense to me.
I think you are misunderstanding my common/uncommon/rare naming convention. The rare items are essentially any other magic item in the game, not represented by the base value (75%) and not represented by the store shelf slots (random). Just as a crafter is free to craft any item whatsoever, and the reason I posted this in the homebrew section, I want my players to have a system in place that uses non-craft skills to acquire items above and beyond what the CRB allows.
That said, do you think having a single DC with a mechanic to pay up to twice the market cost to acquire a "rare" item is fair? >link<
My use of the words 'rare items' was referring to the filled slot items above settlement base value. Like I said earlier, I believe that the market NOT being saturated with whatever you want is one of the key motivators towards personal crafting. That is the real value of the craft skills/feats.
What I mentioned using Knowledge (local) or Diplomacy for was finding an item that was below base value, but was not readily available (the 25%). Finding someone to make an item above base value should not be easy. A settlement that doesn't have the item on hand also is unlikely to have anyone of high enough level to craft the item for you either. Keeping in mind, that Minor items are typically CL3-7, Medium CL5-12, Major CL10-16. The settlement rules also state the likelihood of finding each level of spellcaster in a given settlement, which also falls in line with the items that are available. In short, if you want to get just the magic item you want, you either have to travel to a very large market, find the reclusive and not incredibly generous wizard in the outskirts, or make it yourself.
|
|
This is the Acquisition check, organized by price, DC, and time:
Acquisition Check
100 (DC 20) 1d6 weeks
250
500
1,500
3,000
5,250 (DC 25) 2d6 weeks
8,000
11,750
16,500
23,000
31,000 (DC 30) 3d6 weeks
41,000
54,000
70,000
92,500
120,000 (DC 35) 4d6 weeks
157,500
205,000
265,000
342,500
440,000 (DC 40) 5d6 weeks
x20 (+10) +2d6
Player may use an appropriate skill (Appraise, Diplomacy, Local, Merchant, Nobility). Check may be attempted once per week for a particular item. A player may add +1 to the check for each +10% they are willing to pay extra (max +10). For each 5 the check succeeds subtract 1 die worth of weeks time (minimum 1 day). Natural 1 cannot re-roll for a number of weeks (roll time).
...
I feel the Crafter's advantage of being able get items at a discounted rate is still pretty significant.
I feel the Crafter's advantage of being able get items at a discounted rate is still pretty significant.
Only if your campaign gives out loot primarily as currency (or currency equivalent valuables). If you instead dish out a fair number of magical items, then crafting doesn't provide any cost advantage at all. Undesirable loot items are sold at half price, and the desirable replacements are crafted at half-price, meaning it's a wash in most cases. The only remaining advantage of self-crafting being the ability to get just the items you want.