First don’t go multiclass with an inquisitor. You have too many level dependent abilities to waste a level of fighter. Inquisitors get proficiency with the favored weapon of their deity. Also as a half orc you get proficiency with great axe and falchion. Power attack is not that important at first level so just pick it up at 3rd level.
Inquisitors get a domain or inquisition, but don’t get domain spells. This means you don’t get mirror image. You may want to consider an inquisition instead of a domain. Conversion and heresy are both decent inquisitions that allow you to use WIS for bluff, and intimidate (Also diplomacy for conversion). This would allow you to dump CHA and still be the party face. Hersey is probably a bit better because you can reroll bluff, diplomacy and stealth rolls a few of times per day.
Inquisitors really come online around 5th level when they get bane. Avoid dumping INT because you will want to be able to identify monsters so you can choose the right type for bane. The half orc alternative FCB is a good for this as well as intimidate. If you pick up improved monster lore a single point investment in each relevant knowledge will be the same as if you maxed out the skill.
Agree on not multiclassing. Use your 1st level feat for Heavy Armor Proficiency. By the time you get Stalwart, you should have access to mithral heavy armor so you don't miss out on anything. That also allows you to keep a 12 on DEX and use the rest of the points around your build. (perhaps put your STR to 18 at 1st level).
The following is what I would recommend for STATS. STR 18, DEX 12, CON 14, INT 12, WIS 14, CHA 7. Take heavy armor proficiency at 1st like Secret Wizard suggested. Since this is for PFS you won’t get higher than 4th level spells so a 14 WIS is fine. Take Heresy inquisition to get WIS for bluff and intimidate and ignore diplomacy.
Use a Falchion instead of a great sword. Use half orc favored class bonus for +1/2 to intimidate and monster lore. Remember that bane is multiplied on a critical hit.
For traits pick up fates favored. This will boost all your saves and works great with divine favor. For your second trait choose armor expert to reduce your ACP by -1.
Avoid spells that target others and concentrate on spells that affect you. Your WIS is a little low so anything that allows a save will be easy to resist.
Even though you are going melee carry a longbow to use as a backup. Most of your abilities work equally well on ranged or melee, so don’t limit yourself to one or the other.
The only simple martial dip I would consider would be 1 level of Armored Hulk Barbarian, but you would want an Extra Rage or two and potentially Raging Vitality to do that. On the up-side, free heavy armor and the joys of rage, which include being able to turn a +1 Furious weapon into a +4 by level 8 with Greater Magic Weapon.
Speaking of feats... Hurtful is really great, but it might be pretty frustrating not to be able to use it until your other swift-action business is dealt with. Also, even with the +2 from race you're looking at making Intimidation checks without any major ability score behind them. Intimidating Prowess is great but costs a feat.
Why multiclass when you can simply take the Rage domain? That keeps your other abilities online.
Because you potentially want another domain and only get 1, or because the Anger Inquisition gets only WIS+level-4 rounds/day starting at 6 while one level of Barbarian gets you 6+CON starting at 1, or because you want to combine the two so that you don't need Extra Rage, or because you get free martial proficiency and also potentially Heavy Armor with Armored Hulk... there are plenty of reasons why one might go that way.
Also, as a half orc Inquisitor, you get +2 (from race) and +half your level to Intimidate.
That's true, the FCB brings it up pretty well.
And Inquisitors really, really do not need to multiclass. They do plenty of damage, and multiclassing slows down their Bane, spells, and other abilities.
If this game was only about what characters or classes needed...
The Inquisitor doesn't suffer unduly from one dropped level, other than perhaps the one level where you don't have Bane yet. On most levels the combat difference will be a -1 here or there in Judgements if anything at all, and spells aren't generally a primary issue. It's definitely a trade-off and not to be taken lightly, but I'm not sure why the idea evokes the fear and loathing it does.
I had an exotic themed Witch Hunter Inquisitor of Pharasma who dropped an Inquisitor level for Sohei 1, using it to flurry in mithral medium armor with a quickdraw shield while picking up Domain Strike: Gentle Rest and Snake Style/Fang. Tons of fun, really nasty in a brawl, and impossible on so many levels as a pure Inquisitor.
Inquisitors actually get Good abilities at every level. Starting at 2nd you get WIS to Initiative, Detect Alignment, and track. 3rd level you get a boost in your judgments and your first teamwork feat, 4th level brings an extra judgement per day and second level spells. 5th level brings bane discern lies and a boost in your judgments. 6th is mostly a boost in judgements, but at this level you get access to alignment property of judgement of smiting, and another teamwork feat. 7th level gives you a third judgement and access to 3rd level spells. 8th level you get to use two judgements at the same time. 9th level gives you your 3rd teamwork feat, and a boost to your judgments. 10th level gives you access to your 4th level spells and 4 judgements per day. 11th level gives stalwart. 12th level you gain greater bane.
Since PFS stops at 12 levels a dip of a single level costs you greater bane. You also lose a caster level which means you buffs don’t last as long. You are also losing out on your favored class bonus. Since the character in question is a half orc he can take either the human or half orc favored bonus. This means he loses +1 to intimidate and +1/2 to monster lore, or an extra spell known.
Bane is going to do more than any dip will ever do so delaying that should be avoid. Which means you don’t take the dip until at least 6th level, by that time why bother.
Bane is going to do more than any dip will ever do...
Considering that the character I mentioned above got martial and monk weapon proficiency, flurry of blows, Improved Unarmed Strike, Monk Unarmed Strike (allowing spell-buffs on his unarmed strike), a boost to saves, an 'always act in the surprise round' feature, and a specialized no-prerequisite bonus feat, I would tend to disagree.
Magical Knack fixes caster level easily, but you're correct that otherwise things are delayed a level. Sketching out the character and looking at what you gain or lose at various levels is a good way to decide whether to trade off a level or not.
Disagree totally on multiclassing. Full Inquisitor OP.
Having the ability to use a ton of different weapons is not that good if you already have access to a good melee weapon. Most characters don’t use a lot of different weapons. Usually you have one melee and a ranged weapon. Inquisitors already get most of the decent ranged weapons, and as a half orc he gets a couple of good two handed weapons.
Flurry of Blows is only an one extra attack and you take a penalty to hit. Since both the monk and the inquisitor are ¾ BAB class you don’t get a +1 BAB until third level. This means that your single extra attack is at a penalty of -3. The only time this is going to be beneficial is you are facing a lot of low level threats. Any level appropriate monster will probably have a high enough AC where the extra penalty to hit is not worth it.
Let’s compare the 5th level inquisitor vs the 1st level monk/4th level inquisitor. Since we are comparing this build assume an 18 STR and no other abilities except class features. The pure inquisitor uses a falchion and is +9 to hit and deals 2d4+6 (+2d6 for bane). This is an average of 18 points of damage. The monk/inquisitor gets two attacks at +6 and deals 1d6+4 points of damage for an average damage of 7.5 each or 15 points of damage if both hit. The pure inquisitor is a lot more likely to hit and also has triple the critical hit threat range. This is also without judgements since at this level both are about the same. The pure inquisitor has a better chance to hit and deals a lot more damage.
This is also for PFS which if I remember correctly does not allow magical knack. Even if it does magical knack only helps with duration and other level dependent variables. The inquisitor gets slower access to spells than a cleric. This means that delaying gaining your higher level spells even more. A single level dip means you don’t get your second level spells until 5th level and know less spells than a full inquisitor. By this time the cleric is getting his 3rd level spells.
To each their own. People tend to be extremely attached to full feature progression and dismissive of out-of-class benefits.
Personally, I think an Inquisitor focused on combat who decides to trade things like (by averages) 1/3 point judgement damage bonus, 1/5 point judgement ab bonus, 1/3 spell levels, and 1 round of Bane in exchange for rage that can give +3damage/+2ab from +4 strength, +25%ish HP from +6 constitution, and +2 weapon enhancement from Greater Magic Weapon/Furious while picking up a non-rage Inquisition is hardly making a bad choice.
For example, a level 9 Armored Hulk 1/ Inquisitor 8 with: Raging Vitality/ Power Attack/ Hurtful/ Cornugon Smash/ Extra Rage can activate rage with their Furious weapon for a total of +4ab/+5damage/+27HP, and they can also use the awesome Touch of Chaos and Aura of Chaos powers to wreck enemy turns and cripple their rolls. A pure Inquisitor could do Anger Inquisition, but would be short a feat spent on Heavy Armor; or they could do Chaos Domain, but not have the enormous combat benefits of rage.
I don't want to come across like I'm saying Inquisitor should multiclass one way or the other - I agree they shouldn't give up a level lightly. I just don't like when people wave away a huge pool of interesting and possibly very powerful options with a 'never multiclass it's worse'.
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Dude asked for melee inquisitor. Saying they should multiclass to be good seems like offering a pen to someone who asked for a pencil. It does the same job but it's not the same feel.
Plus multiclass is a huge cripple at higher levels.
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Guys. Half-orcs don't get free proficiency with those weapons. They're treated as martial. But that doesn't do any good for inquisitors because they don't have martial weapon proficiency. So you've got to rely on your deity's weapon.
Weapon Familiarity: Half-orcs are proficient with greataxes and falchions and treat any weapon with the word “orc” in its name as a martial weapon.
They do get proficiency with greataxes and falchions. They also treat any weapon with the word "orc" in its name as martial. There's an alternate racial trait that lets you swap this to be proficient in whips and longswords (and gives a bonus on Knowledge Local), but that doesn't seem useful here.
A single class inquisitor is very powerful. But, because Inquisitor gets a good ability at just about every level, it isn't really hurt much by taking a dip into another class, either. It's just a really powerful and versatile class all around.
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Guys. Half-orcs don't get free proficiency with those weapons. They're treated as martial. But that doesn't do any good for inquisitors because they don't have martial weapon proficiency. So you've got to rely on your deity's weapon.Weapon Familiarity: Half-orcs are proficient with greataxes and falchions and treat any weapon with the word “orc” in its name as a martial weapon.They do get proficiency with greataxes and falchions. They also treat any weapon with the word "orc" in its name as martial. There's an alternate racial trait that lets you swap this to be proficient in whips and longswords (and gives a bonus on Knowledge Local), but that doesn't seem useful here.
Ah, you're right. Thanks for correcting me on that one.
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Actually, I think a good question for the OP is: Are you planning on playing Eyes of the Ten, or other level 12+ material with your inquisitor? If not, then multiclassing isn't the worst thing in the world. Even with their spellcasting, I've always felt that an inquisitor's bread and butter was the Bane ability. Normally I wouldn't say delaying getting Bane would be worth multiclassing, except in the case of Rage, another nice damage/accuracy boosting ability. However if taking a level of Barbarian meant no Greater Bane for Eyes of the Ten, it would be an absolute deal breaker.
Other than that, I have to say most of this advice is pretty good. I always favor heavy armor with an inquisitor. With Long Bow as a back-up. Also inquisitors have a few really nice no save spells that you can have in scroll form that will still be effective at high level, so if you haven't looked into the litanies, their great spells.
Paired opportunist is pretty good, but I usually take Lookout, as it's easier to be beside an ally before combat starts, than ensure you're next to them in combat, and often things that will provoke from an ally will provoke from you if you both threaten. Still, not a bad option.
Also, have you considered the Sanctified Slayer archetype? Since you're already going down the Cornugon Smash/Hurtful road, you could end the build with Weapon Focus>Dazzling Display>Shatter Defenses. That way at level 11 you can be adding 3d6 sneak attack to creatures you've intimidated. You'd have to give up on Judgements, but the studied target you get instead is a decent replacement.
Dude asked for melee inquisitor. Saying they should multiclass to be good seems like offering a pen to someone who asked for a pencil. It does the same job but it's not the same feel.
Plus multiclass is a huge cripple at higher levels.
All I said was "the only simple martial dip I would consider is...", with the emphasis on consider. Not "you need to multiclass". Beyond that, I was simply responding to "never multiclass!" with reasons one might consider it, and trying to point out that there can be fun and maybe even 'not wrong' dips on an Inquisitor. If he started off posting a build with a level dip, I'm not sure how I can be accused of changing what he's looking for by suggesting that there's only one simple dip worth looking at.
Having the ability to use a ton of different weapons is not that good if you already have access to a good melee weapon. Most characters don’t use a lot of different weapons. Usually you have one melee and a ranged weapon. Inquisitors already get most of the decent ranged weapons, and as a half orc he gets a couple of good two handed weapons.
If you wish to play a non-half-orc with a deity whose weapon isn't as good as a greatsword/falchion/nodachi, then proficiency is useful.
Flurry of Blows is only an one extra attack and you take a penalty to hit. Since both the monk and the inquisitor are ¾ BAB class you don’t get a +1 BAB until third level. This means that your single extra attack is at a penalty of -3. The only time this is going to be beneficial is you are facing a lot of low level threats. Any level appropriate monster will probably have a high enough AC where the extra penalty to hit is not worth it.First of all, flurry is done at full BAB, meaning it's a -2 total. Second, an Inquisitor - particularly one with Fate's Favored - has an absurd haul of potential buffs. Divine Favor + Fate's Favored + Judgements + Bane means that there should be absolutely no problem absorbing a -2ab for a useful reason. An extra strike backed with all those damage buffs is a damn useful reason. As far as attacks go, you have to drop to a truly pitiful chance to hit before two attacks at -2ab have less chance to hit than one.
Let’s compare the 5th level inquisitor vs the 1st level monk/4th level inquisitor. Since we are comparing this build assume an 18 STR and no other abilities except class features. The pure inquisitor uses a falchion and is +9 to hit and deals 2d4+6 (+2d6 for bane). This is an average of 18 points of damage. The monk/inquisitor gets two attacks at +6 and deals 1d6+4 points of damage for an average damage of 7.5 each or 15 points of damage if both hit. The pure inquisitor is a lot more likely to hit and also has triple the critical hit threat range. This is also without judgements since at this level both are about the same. The pure inquisitor has a better chance to hit and deals a lot more damage.
Besides the fact that you're forgetting flurry BAB, you're ignoring the fact that flurry of blows works with a 9-ring or temple sword (with two-handed power attack as well if desired), both of which are possible thanks to added proficiency. Use of Unarmed Strike was limited to the large pile of Snake Fang retaliations that came up by 9.
You're also disingenuously putting up a comparison at the one level where Bane is a factor and ignoring the Inquisitor's static buffs. Move on to 6 and observe what happens when a full run of Inquisitor buffs are put on a temple sword flurry. Once iterative attacks and Haste-effects start to appear the value of that extra attack diminishes, but it remains extremely powerful thanks to the fact that the Inquisitor is so loaded with damage buffs.
This is also for PFS which if I remember correctly does not allow magical knack. Even if it does magical knack only helps with duration and other level dependent variables. The inquisitor gets slower access to spells than a cleric. This means that delaying gaining your higher level spells even more. A single level dip means you don’t get your second level spells until 5th level and know less spells than a full inquisitor. By this time the cleric is getting his 3rd level spells.
Magical Knack was un-banned in PFS. You're right that spells are the single biggest trade-off, but in the context of a melee Inquisitor they're a support component.
When first considering the Sohei 1/ Inquisitor I posted, I calculated the potential differences at multiple levels. Then I sucked it up and spent level 5 anticipating what Bane would do on a sword-flurry, and I wasn't disappointed.
Sohei/Inquisitor @6: (1d8+1) +5STR +2Judge +3Favor (+2+2d6Bane) = 24.5 non-crit average... x2 strikes.
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Some good advice so far.
I have a 9th level half-orc Inquisitor of Iomedae in PFS. It's been great fun to play him in every scenario.
Some recommendations:
Do not multiclass. It's not worth what you lose.
I think that the 'Inquisitor' feats are all weak or outright traps. Don't bother with any of them. Skip Judgment Surge; it's definitely not worth it.
I think Inquisitions are more useful and interesting than Domains.
Calistria grants the Fervor Inquisition. I highly recommend it. You get a ranged attack that will be ok at low levels, but the 8th level ability is very, very good.
The Torture Inquisition is pretty good too.
Spell selection is important. When I created the character, Fortune's Favored wasn't an option, but if I were you, I'd definitely take that trait to go with Divine Favor. (the half-orc alt racial trait Sacred Tattoo is good with Fortune's Favored too)
I recommend selecting almost all of your spells for utility. There won't generally be time for casting during combat. Divine Favor is an exception as is Align Weapon, which has been very useful.
Typically, I start combat by making a Knowledge check, activating Judgment, casting Divine Favor, and moving to position.
Blistering Invective is absolutely nuts. If you're focusing on Intimidate, definitely learn that spell as soon as possible.
I took the Ferocious Resolve feat at first level. It's a mixed blessing. It has made all the difference in a few encounters, but it has also almost gotten him killed several times.
I've struggled with insufficient AC, so Heavy Armor Proficiency might be a good choice. Mithral Breastplate isn't terrible though, especially when paired with the Inquisitor's healing abilities.
I've experimented with a lot of the teamwork feats and settled on these: Outflank, Shake It Off, and Lookout. They are the only ones that I've ever found to be useful. Remember they 'stick' once you gain 3 levels.
Use the Healing Judgment. Most people seem to go straight for Justice or Destruction, but I think fast healing is a much better choice. It's incredibly useful, especially at low levels.
Getting a +1 Keen Falchion is important. I made mine Cold Iron too and haven't been disappointed. Probably get a Strength belt. All other gear is incidental.
Suggested feats:
1: Heavy Armor Proficiency
3: Power Attack
3t: Outflank
5: Hurtful
6t: Shake It Off
7: Cornugon Smash
9t: Lookout
9: Weapon Focus
11: Improved Initiative