Goblinrage |
How does bab with double barreled guns work? Would I be able to apply my bab to both attacks or not?
Right now I'm planning on using an unchained summoners eidolon with hammer the gap feat with about sixteen arms to hold each gun so I can make a total of 32 attacks. Now the bab for each gun, an assortment of feats, and guns touch ac lets me get away with crushing most AC's I face but then it occurred to me that BaB might only apply to the first attack of each double barreled pistol when I'm firing both at same time. Which would make my poor eidolans near unmissable bullets have a small to decent chance to -gasp- miss.
I'm fairly sure bab would screw my second shots on all my double barreled pistol attacks butttt never hurts to check.
DM_Blake |
(I'm not even thinking about whether your eidolon could hold and fire 16 guns or not - that's not the question; so I'll just assume it works.)
This is pretty straight forward:
This pistol has two parallel barrels; each barrel can be fired independently as a separate action, or both can be shot at once with the same action.
If both barrels are shot at once, they must both target the same creature or object, and the pistol becomes wildly inaccurate, imparting a –4 penalty on each shot.
So you could fire up to 16 shots (one barrel per gun but I guess you don't have to fire all 16 guns unless you want to) with no penalty (except the usual penalties for using multiple weapons) and attack as many as 16 different targets. Or you could fire one, some, or all of those double-barrel pistols so that you fire two shots simultaneously at the same target - when you do, any gun that fires both barrels takes the -4 penalty on BOTH shots.
You still can only target up to 16 enemies but you could fire anywhere up to 32 shots.
So for "BAB screwing second shots", don't forget that the penalty applies to first shots, too, when you fire both barrels of the same gun.
Goblinrage |
Sorry if I wasnt clear for getting the -4 penalty applied to each shot what I meant exactly was... For example lets say I take my double barreled pistol and fired both shots at once.... I would get my eidolons bab of whatever lets say +9 to both shots albeit with a -4 penalty for firing both at once giving me a total to +5 to hit to both shots considering no other factors were in on this.
Edit: Just want to figure out how this all works for hammer the gap. Considering if I hit with lets say 10 attacks against same target that would be 55 dmg by itself before rolling dice. So with the double barreled pistols two shots being fired simultaneously each shot hitting and stacking up hammer the gap.
FLite |
(I'm not even thinking about whether your eidolon could hold and fire 16 guns or not - that's not the question; so I'll just assume it works.)
Well, your eidolon can make 16 attacks at 68th level.
Assuming the chart continues it's progression.
Functionally, though, unless your GM opens up multi weapon fighting for you, at best you are going to be using two weapon fighting, which means everything after the first two shots is -10 to hit... -14 with double shot.
Goblinrage |
BaB applies to all attacks.
Of course, you're limited by your BaB to how many weapon attacks you can make per round.
At BaB 9 you can fire two guns. So a max of 4 attacks with double barreled pistols (discounting Rapid Shot, Haste, etc.).
I thought that rule got circumvented by the fact that my eidolon has sixteen arms. Normally a character has two arms so they cant make any more attacks then that, but again sixteen arms. And if I was taught this correctly each unused weapon arm that hasnt attacked yet can have the characters bab apply to it.
Goblinrage |
DM_Blake wrote:(I'm not even thinking about whether your eidolon could hold and fire 16 guns or not - that's not the question; so I'll just assume it works.)
Well, your eidolon can make 16 attacks at 68th level.
Assuming the chart continues it's progression.
Functionally, though, unless your GM opens up multi weapon fighting for you, at best you are going to be using two weapon fighting, which means everything after the first two shots is -10 to hit... -14 with double shot.
It that because of a limit on how many times you can attack with weapons thats not tied to amount of hands you have that can hold them? Because it would only take about 14 points for me to get sixteen arms.
Goblinrage |
FLite wrote:It that because of a limit on how many times you can attack with weapons thats not tied to amount of hands you have that can hold them? Because it would only take about 14 points for me to get sixteen arms.DM_Blake wrote:(I'm not even thinking about whether your eidolon could hold and fire 16 guns or not - that's not the question; so I'll just assume it works.)
Well, your eidolon can make 16 attacks at 68th level.
Assuming the chart continues it's progression.
Functionally, though, unless your GM opens up multi weapon fighting for you, at best you are going to be using two weapon fighting, which means everything after the first two shots is -10 to hit... -14 with double shot.
Edit: Oh and he already let me have multiweapon fighting before I considered this.
FLite |
Old eidolon that was true. Unchained eidolon has a maximum number of attacks including manufactured weapon attacks.
Even then, the eidolon is bound by the normal multi weapon fighting rules when fighting with manufactured weapons. -6 to the first attack, -10 to each additional attack. (Two weapon fighting reduces that to -4 for the first and second, but does nothing for third, fourth and fifth.)
Also, what level are you, because 14 extra arms needs 18th level, or a lot of feats. (11th level if you have the FCB that add evo points, take extra evo feat 3 times.)
DM_Blake |
Goblinrage:
Are you aware that "BAB" means "BASE Attack Bonus"?
Your BAB is not something that you apply to some attacks, don't apply to others. It's not a conditional bonus at all. It is your BASE bonus to your attack roll that you ALWAYS get no matter what, because it's the base. All other bonuses come and go depending on whether the conditions are right for those bonuses, but the BAB is always the base, always there, always applied.
FLite |
Additionally, the max number of attacks includes iteratives, so usually, you are going to get a lot fewer than the normal max number. So lets assume level 14. You have 3 iteratives, and a max of 6 attacks, so at most you can get 3 more arms worth of attacks. (You should probably go ahead and get an extra pair of arms beyond that anyway, because you need to reload.)
Also, you are going to spend a lot on guns, because if any of those guns roll two 1's during the double shot, they explode (depends on your GM's interpretation, but the gun misfires twice, so it is broken, and then broken again, and a broken gun explodes when broken again.)
Goblinrage |
Old eidolon that was true. Unchained eidolon has a maximum number of attacks including manufactured weapon attacks.
Even then, the eidolon is bound by the normal multi weapon fighting rules when fighting with manufactured weapons. -6 to the first attack, -10 to each additional attack. (Two weapon fighting reduces that to -4 for the first and second, but does nothing for third, fourth and fifth.)
Also, what level are you, because 14 extra arms needs 18th level, or a lot of feats. (11th level if you have the FCB that add evo points, take extra evo feat 3 times.)
Level 15 with greater evolution surge. And just looked over unchained summoner eidolon rulings... Yep Didnt notice max attacks now includes weapons.
DM_Blake |
FLite wrote:Level 15 with greater evolution surge. And just looked over unchained summoner eidolon rulings... Yep Didnt notice max attacks now includes weapons.Old eidolon that was true. Unchained eidolon has a maximum number of attacks including manufactured weapon attacks.
Even then, the eidolon is bound by the normal multi weapon fighting rules when fighting with manufactured weapons. -6 to the first attack, -10 to each additional attack. (Two weapon fighting reduces that to -4 for the first and second, but does nothing for third, fourth and fifth.)
Also, what level are you, because 14 extra arms needs 18th level, or a lot of feats. (11th level if you have the FCB that add evo points, take extra evo feat 3 times.)
Last I checked, Unchained is pretty much optional, so it might not be binding in your game.
Goblinrage |
Goblinrage wrote:Last I checked, Unchained is pretty much optional, so it might not be binding in your game.FLite wrote:Level 15 with greater evolution surge. And just looked over unchained summoner eidolon rulings... Yep Didnt notice max attacks now includes weapons.Old eidolon that was true. Unchained eidolon has a maximum number of attacks including manufactured weapon attacks.
Even then, the eidolon is bound by the normal multi weapon fighting rules when fighting with manufactured weapons. -6 to the first attack, -10 to each additional attack. (Two weapon fighting reduces that to -4 for the first and second, but does nothing for third, fourth and fifth.)
Also, what level are you, because 14 extra arms needs 18th level, or a lot of feats. (11th level if you have the FCB that add evo points, take extra evo feat 3 times.)
I was a syntheist which annoyed my gm after about the third demon lord was crushed I ascended into becoming unchained. .... I miss my chains. Stupid nerfed, balance, fair unchained summoners...
DM_Blake |
DM Blake, he said they were using unchained in the first post, so it is a pretty good assumption.
"using" and "forced to use" might be different. I told my players I'm using Unchained classes so they can pick from them if they want to. I didn't tell them they had to.
I was a master syntheist which annoyed my gm after about the third demon lord was crushed I ascended into becoming unchained. .... I miss my chains. Stupid nerfed, balance, fair unchained summoners...
Although that makes it more clear...
Rynjin |
Rynjin wrote:I thought that rule got circumvented by the fact that my eidolon has sixteen arms. Normally a character has two arms so they cant make any more attacks then that, but again sixteen arms. And if I was taught this correctly each unused weapon arm that hasnt attacked yet can have the characters bab apply to it.BaB applies to all attacks.
Of course, you're limited by your BaB to how many weapon attacks you can make per round.
At BaB 9 you can fire two guns. So a max of 4 attacks with double barreled pistols (discounting Rapid Shot, Haste, etc.).
Your arms have nothing to do with how many attacks you can make per round. That's based on your BaB, and your Feats.
FLite |
As a GM, this thread made me weep bitter tears.
With multi-weapon fighting and 16 arms, yes this works, with a -6 penalty on all attacks (-4 from firing the double pistol, -2 from dual wielding? maybe -4, i don't know if pistols count as light weapons). But then you have 16 empty pistols.
Thats why I said he needs another pair of arms, and rapid reload, and alchemical cartridges, so that he can reload all 32 barrels using 32 free actions in one turn...