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1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
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I am trying to figure out soemthing with poisons. The poison track simulates the progressive effects of poison in
the body. A character who is poisoned rolls a saving throw after
the listed onset at the listed frequency. On an initial exposure
to poison, regardless of whether her save succeeds, a victim
takes an amount of poison damage equal to the poison’s DC –
10, divided by 2 (for example, 5 points of poison damage for a
DC 20 poison). This is hit point damage, not ability damage.
If a victim is exposed to additional doses of the same poison,
a failed save progresses the poison track by one step and
increases the duration by 50%, but doesn’t increase the DC.(Unchained Book p139) Does this mean physical damage is done all the time? Exaple what does Vishkanya poison do physiacl or jut the Dex? Vishkanya Venom: Injury; save Fort DC 10 + 1/2 the vishkanya’s Hit Dice + the vishkanya’s
Constitution modifier; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; effect 1d2 Dex; cure 1 save. (advanced Races Book p208)
Also is this just for injury poisons or all including injested etc?
but what is the whole dc-10 divided by 2 then?
Marediv wrote: Does this mean physical damage is done all the time? Exaple what does Vishkanya poison do physiacl or jut the Dex? Vishkanya Venom: Injury; save Fort DC 10 + 1/2 the vishkanya’s Hit Dice + the vishkanya’s
Constitution modifier; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; effect 1d2 Dex; cure 1 save. (advanced Races Book p208)
The previously linked rules are the default rules, if you are using the Unchained rules, I don't think they apply.
I believe the hp damage is done only on initial exposure.
It's unclear to me if this is intended to penalize creatures with good saves, as it entails always taking hp damage if you are not currently afflicted by that poison; but this is more favorable than progressing along those status tracks.
Keep in mind, that poisons under the Unchained rules, by default, do not do any ability damage/drain.
If you are currently poisoned, it appears the save you make is vs progress on its track (and longer duration) only. However it also appears that if you get exposed to a different poison of the same track, you would take the additional HP damage, but I find it unclear whether the second poison runs its own separate, overlapping track or if it's intended to stack to a single track per creature. (I suspect the latter)
Quote: Also is this just for injury poisons or all including injested etc? The Unchained rules appear to cover all the various poison types, examples from each type are included below the track section.
Imbicatus wrote: All of your questions are answered here. No. The OP is asking about Unchained poison rules and that article doesn't cover it.
Marediv wrote: Does this mean physical damage is done all the time? Exaple what does Vishkanya poison do physiacl or jut the Dex? Vishkanya Venom: Injury; save Fort DC 10 + 1/2 the vishkanya’s Hit Dice + the vishkanya’s
Constitution modifier; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; effect 1d2 Dex; cure 1 save. (advanced Races Book p208)
Also is this just for injury poisons or all including injested etc?
You mentioned physical damage, but it makes no mention of physical damage. It's poison damage.
That's a good question, since initial exposure could mean either initial exposure to that dose, or else initial exposure to any time that person encounters that poison. The problem with the latter scenario would be that it never states an end period, meaning that once a person has ever been hit by a poison, they'd be immune to it's damage from then on. That makes me tend to think that it means that it applies damage any time a poison is added to a creature. Initial seems to indicate that it's distinguishing the scenario from just making another save. The only weird thing is that it still says "exposure", and subsequent saves on a poison isn't exposure.
This seems to require a FAQ clairification. It might mean only the first time the poison hits, but if so, I presume there would be some sort of reset time where it could cause the damage if exposed again at a later date. There is no mention of that though.
As Archaeik already said, your Viskanya poison would not deal any Dex damage. No poison using unchained rules would deal any ability damage.
Joesi wrote: This seems to require a FAQ clairification. It might mean only the first time the poison hits, but if so, I presume there would be some sort of reset time where it could cause the damage if exposed again at a later date. There is no mention of that though.
I don't think this needs a FAQ.
If you get hit by a longsword (no poison, just steel) and you take damage, what is the "reset time" you have to wait before that longsword can hurt you again?
Answer? Zero. No reset time.
The same answer applies to poisons. Poison affects you, you begin trying to make saves. One you are successful enough, the poison is gone. if you're still alive, you stop taking whatever damage that poison was causing you. The very next time you are affected, even by the same poison, you begin taking damage again. No "reset time".
The word "initial" refers to each time you are affected.
DM_Blake wrote: Joesi wrote: This seems to require a FAQ clairification. It might mean only the first time the poison hits, but if so, I presume there would be some sort of reset time where it could cause the damage if exposed again at a later date. There is no mention of that though.
I don't think this needs a FAQ.
If you get hit by a longsword (no poison, just steel) and you take damage, what is the "reset time" you have to wait before that longsword can hurt you again?
Answer? Zero. No reset time.
The same answer applies to poisons. Poison affects you, you begin trying to make saves. One you are successful enough, the poison is gone. if you're still alive, you stop taking whatever damage that poison was causing you. The very next time you are affected, even by the same poison, you begin taking damage again. No "reset time".
The word "initial" refers to each time you are affected. It specifically says "initial exposure" though. The key is that the poison can deal it's damage without the person being poisoned. It should be re-worded to be "any exposure" or "initial save for that poison's exposure".
Per RAW, the fact it says "initial exposure" seems like taking the damage would result in someone that could never take the damage again. it's at least 90% chance not RAI though in my opinion, which is why it should be re-worded and clarified.
Are you suggesting that a target would be immune to taking poison damage while they are poisoned by that poison, but as soon as they cure it, they will be vulnerable to taking poison damage again? Aside from that being an odd mechanic, the rules certainly don't seem to say that — or at least clearly.
It's simple.
Something poisons you. That's the initial exposure. Then you try to make saves until you die or until you are cured. At that point, the poison stops affecting you.
If, at some future time, something poisons you again, even if it is the same exact poison, or if it's a different poison, then this is a NEW initial exposure and you begin making saves until you die or until you are cured.
That's all there is to it.
The mechanics of what the poison actually does are entirely separate from the idea of initial exposure and ending the effect of the poison.
DM_Blake wrote: It's simple.
Something poisons you. That's the initial exposure. Then you try to make saves until you die or until you are cured. At that point, the poison stops affecting you.
If, at some future time, something poisons you again, even if it is the same exact poison, or if it's a different poison, then this is a NEW initial exposure and you begin making saves until you die or until you are cured.
That's all there is to it.
The mechanics of what the poison actually does are entirely separate from the idea of initial exposure and ending the effect of the poison.
Based off what you just said, it seems as thought you almost might not even know what I'm talking about or what he's asking (I'm not saying you don't, but you didn't mention poison damage once that whole time, nor acknowledge that it deals damage even if they weren't poisoned). None of what you said is in question. What's in question is with regards to the damage the poison deals when it hits a target even if they pass their saving throw against the poison.
Initial exposure does not mean something poisons them. Initial exposure means one is subjected to a poison effect. It's just splitting hair though. If they pass the saving throw, they are not poisoned. The poison damage is clearly described as applying even if the person doesn't succeed their saving throw.
The way I see it there's 2 options:
1. Every single time someone is confronted by a poison they take the poison damage, including multiple times in the round, even of the same type of poison.
2. The first time ever a person is subject to a poison they take the damage, at which point they would never take the damage again.
RAI is likely #1 or else some other explanation which is not clear, but if #1 is unintended it should use different terminology, since it says "initial exposure", which wouldn't make any sense if it meant "every single time poison is applied to a target".
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