What spells can a sorcerer learn


Rules Questions


In the sorcerer class, under Spells, it says:

"A sorcerer's selection of spells is extremely limited. A sorcerer begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells of her choice. At each new sorcerer level, she gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a sorcerer knows is not affected by her Charisma score; the numbers on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known are fixed.) These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of through study."

I haven't been able to find a clarification for what this means. What spells aside from sorcerer/wizard ones is a sorcerer allowed to learn when she gains new spells known? I.e., what are these "unusual spells"?

Dark Archive

It's talking about the Bloodline spells you get, which are specific to the individual Bloodline your Sorcerer takes at first level.


Oh. That seems strange though, since the section detailing bloodline spells is a separate one which follows this one and that's not how it seems to read. However, if this has been clarified already to be the case, then thanks! That clears things up.


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It actually refers to using spellcraft to.. mind blowing.. craft spells.

Some GM may allow you to research a spell and then take it. Or, for instance, say ask you to study a spell they don't see as common, and earn it that way.

However, If you would rather keep it simple, it is safe to say the lists provided have a lot of options.

Shadow Lodge

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I read it to mean that a sorcerer has the potential to learn any spell in the game, even ones outside of Wizard/Sorcerer list or his bloodline spells, at the GM's discretion.

Or, as noted above, research their own new spell.


Well one should be mindful of the class. They couldn't learn something that divine classes do, and for good reason. There should be always a steady eye on stepping over that boundary.


Cavall wrote:

It actually refers to using spellcraft to.. mind blowing.. craft spells.

Except all casters can do that, so there is no reason to assume that section refers to that.

Shadow Lodge

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Cavall wrote:
Well one should be mindful of the class. They couldn't learn something that divine classes do, and for good reason. There should be always a steady eye on stepping over that boundary.

Meh, I don't think it would be that big of a deal to give them a divine spell (short of any that specifically utilize the divine connection, such as Miracle). They do, after all, suffer from having a extremely small number of spells known. I think that WAY more than balances out giving them a non-arcane spell or two.


It would be nice to get a clarification, though maybe that's a vain hope. I mean, I think wizards are a bit more versatile and powerful than sorcerers anyway, so it would make sense if they could nick the odd spell from another class' list. Maybe some cool bard spell for a maestro sorcerer or some healing spells for a celestial one. Anyway, I was just curious if this mysterious section has ever been explained.

Dark Archive

It's definitely not talking about pulling spells from other lists through means other than Bloodline spells.

Some of the Bloodline spells ARE Divine spells cast as Arcane ones, after all. The Celestial Bloodline gets both Bless and Flame Strike, classically Divine spells, for example.


Seranov wrote:
It's definitely not talking about pulling spells from other lists through means other than Bloodline spells.

So why don't oracles have the same text, since oracles can do that with their mystery.

Dark Archive

Considering it's pretty much fluff text and not actual mechanical rules text, it's kind of irrelevant.

The Sorcerer chooses spells from the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list, and gets additional Bloodline spells on top of that. Any other reading is not correct.


Seranov wrote:

Considering it's pretty much fluff text and not actual mechanical rules text, it's kind of irrelevant.

The Sorcerer chooses spells from the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list, and gets additional Bloodline spells on top of that. Any other reading is not correct.

How is it fluff text...???? It's unique bits of text written in the middle of what every other class considers crunch.


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It seems to me that the wizard/sorcerer spell list is the standard. However through whatever means a GM can give the sorcerer a spell not normally found on this list. It allows for GM influence.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ethereal Gears wrote:

In the sorcerer class, under Spells, it says:

"A sorcerer's selection of spells is extremely limited. A sorcerer begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells of her choice. At each new sorcerer level, she gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a sorcerer knows is not affected by her Charisma score; the numbers on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known are fixed.) These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of through study."

I haven't been able to find a clarification for what this means. What spells aside from sorcerer/wizard ones is a sorcerer allowed to learn when she gains new spells known? I.e., what are these "unusual spells"?

It's fluff text for new spells that GMs decide to add to the game for sorcerers and wizards. These would be things added to the core lists from source books, third party sources, or the GM's own personal creation.


Or done by spell craft research.


Cavall wrote:
Well one should be mindful of the class. They couldn't learn something that divine classes do, and for good reason. There should be always a steady eye on stepping over that boundary.

... except, they often do via bloodline spells?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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A spell normally on the divine list cast from as a bloodline spell is an arcane spell. Ditto for mysteries and domains, in reverse.

That's a wee bit different from being able to PICK off those lists.

==Aelryinth


So, a sorcerer should never be able to pick a spell which is limited to divine casters... except when he can? The precedent is still there. Just convert the newly picked spell into an arcane spell as per bloodlines if that galls you.

Not saying that sorc wording gives players a free reign to pick non-list spells (it's clearly there for GM fiat), but trying to tell GMs that they should restrict typically divine spells for that fiat seems a little rich given the precedent.


Cavall wrote:
Or done by spell craft research.

Can't be that, because every caster can do that despite the fact sorcerer is the only class with that text.

Liberty's Edge

It is simply a permission to take sorcerer spells from other sources beside the CRB.

You are disregarding half of the phrase to get the result you want.

PRD wrote:

These new spells can be common chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of through study. [/b]

Define "common spells". Not a game term, so you get a permission to violate something that isn't a defined rule, getting common spells.

Unusual can be a reference to common spells as easily at it can be a reference to the sorcerer/wizard list. As every other part of the rules say that you are limited to your class spell list and the exceptions are spelled very precisely, interpreting it as common vs unusual is way more credible than sorcerer list vs non sorcerer list.

BTW, it is further clarified by this piece of the magic section:

PRD wrote:
Adding Spells to a Sorcerer's or Bard's Repertoire: A sorcerer or bard gains spells each time she attains a new level in her class and never gains spells any other way. When your sorcerer or bard gains a new level, consult Table: Bard Spells Known or Table: Sorcerer Spells Known to learn how many spells from the appropriate spell list she now knows. With permission from the GM, sorcerers and bards can also select the spells they gain from new and unusual spells that they come across while adventuring.

"With permission from the GM,"

With permission from the GM my human character can have a par of wings or be able to turn into a ooze.


Milo v3 wrote:
Cavall wrote:
Or done by spell craft research.
Can't be that, because every caster can do that despite the fact sorcerer is the only class with that text.

It's just telling you that you can study a new spell to learn one. How's that not spell craft? You're taking fluff as being the be all and end all when it's just fluff.

And guys I'm saying be mindful of the restrictions placed on the class by design. You can't decide to be a healer because it would be fun. That's what oracles and clerics do. Nor can yiu choose to steal and cherry pick Paladin spells because yiu want them. There's limits on your skills. Bloodlines stretch those limits but they don't allow you to break them.


Cavall wrote:

It's just telling you that you can study a new spell to learn one. How's that not spell craft? You're taking fluff as being the be all and end all when it's just fluff.

And guys I'm saying be mindful of the restrictions placed on the class by design. You can't decide to be a healer because it would be fun. That's what oracles and clerics do. Nor can yiu choose to steal and cherry pick Paladin spells because yiu want them. There's limits on your skills. Bloodlines stretch those limits but they don't allow you to break them.

It's not referring to crafting spells, because then every casting class would have that text, because every spellcasting class can do that. It's not referring to bloodlines, because then oracles would have that text. It's not fluff because it's in the middle of crunch with no fluff, so there is no reason to assume it's fluff.

Shadow Lodge

So what does it refer to, Milo?

It looks like rules text but doesn't actually provide the mechanic for learning unusual spells (in terms of any extra requirements over learning normal spells, or limitations on spells learned). That means that if it is rules text it's an incomplete rule.

There's also no particular reason that it couldn't refer to something that more than one spellcasting class could do (like research spells). Saying that a sorcerer can do X doesn't mean that it's the only class that can do X. It's a little clumsy not to include the same text in every class's description but that doesn't make it logically impossible. Paizo is not 100% consistent and reminder text in particular can be spotty. For example there was a rules question a little while back about a weapon that read "Elves treat this as a martial weapon," which turned out to be a reminder that Weapon Familiarity applied to that weapon. The lack of this reminder in other racial familiarity weapons had caused some confusion.


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Weirdo wrote:

So what does it refer to, Milo?

It looks like rules text but doesn't actually provide the mechanic for learning unusual spells (in terms of any extra requirements over learning normal spells, or limitations on spells learned). That means that if it is rules text it's an incomplete rule.

I'd take it to mean if you come across an unusual spell, by studying it, you could add it to your spell list (though you'd have to add it to spells known by leveling as normal).

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