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The reason for this call is the fundamental nature of what taking 10 means. If you're taking 10, you're performing the action in a different way than if you're rolling a d20. You're doing a routine, stress-free attempt where you effortlessly do an average job. You can't decide to lazily do a routine jump over a pit, and then, mid-way across the gap, decide "I'd better make sure I give this one my all!" and then retroactively have thrown your weight into it in a desperate attempt to leap as far as possible - or vice versa. You can't fling yourself into empty space with every scrap of muscle you possess, only to slip at the last moment, and then say "Now that I'm about to die, I'll just retroactively have been calm and unhurried when I made this jump."
Ah I see that we have different takes on take 10 then. My interpretation is that if I'm not in immediate danger or distracted I can calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10. Not that Doing a take ten was different than calculating the result as if I had rolled a ten but instead was a completely different way of doing the check. But this does explain a lot of why you have your views. I thank you for clearing that up.
A reroll represents getting another chance at an unlucky roll, not a revision of the actions taken. Taking ten is fundamentally different than rolling the die, and allowing players to "take 10" on a reroll is letting them rewind time and perform a different action than they already performed. Rerolling doesn't let a player change their actions - only the result of an action that's already locked in.
See and again this is the same as before. you view take 10 as some special way of doing skills while I view it as allowing me to calculate the result of my check as if I had rolled a 10. Thus there is no more rewinding than ANY reroll would make for.
Especially in a system where rerolls have built-in bonuses, letting people do this invites exploitation. Much better to disallow the option and leave rerolls as they're clearly intended to be - a second chance, not an automatic get-out-of-jail-free card.
Rerolling isn't a get-out-of-jail-free card, and taking 10 on the reroll isn't either. There's some knowledge you want and you roll a 4, reroll and take 10 with 2 stars for a 12, well if a 12 isn't high enough to beat the DC then you still failed. And remember, the take 10 reroll is only being considered in an instance that the original check could have been a take 10. I think you understood that but I want to make sure it's clear. So it's only an automatic get-out-of-jail-free card if you know that you only knew a 10+stars to succeed and you got a roll less than that.
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The reason for this call is the fundamental nature of what taking 10 means. If you're taking 10, you're performing the action in a different way than if you're rolling a d20. You're doing a routine, stress-free attempt where you effortlessly do an average job. You can't decide to lazily do a routine jump over a pit, and then, mid-way across the gap, decide "I'd better make sure I give this one my all!" and then retroactively have thrown your weight into it in a desperate attempt to leap as far as possible - or vice versa. You can't fling yourself into empty space with every scrap of muscle you possess, only to slip at the last moment, and then say "Now that I'm about to die, I'll just retroactively have been calm and unhurried when I made this jump."
A reroll represents getting another chance at an unlucky roll, not a revision of the actions taken. Taking ten is fundamentally different than rolling the die, and allowing players to "take 10" on a reroll is letting them rewind time and perform a different action than they already performed. Rerolling doesn't let a player change their actions - only the result of an action that's already locked in.
Especially in a system where rerolls have built-in bonuses, letting people do this invites exploitation. Much better to disallow the option and leave rerolls as they're clearly intended to be - a second chance, not an automatic get-out-of-jail-free card.
I disagree wholeheartedly with this. Taking 10 is not something the -character- does. It is something the -player- does to reduce variance on a roll. As quoted before:
Taking 10: When your character is not in immediate danger or distracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10. For many routine tasks, taking 10 makes them automatically successful. Distractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10. In most cases, taking 10 is purely a safety measure—you know (or expect) that an average roll will succeed but fear that a poor roll might fail, so you elect to settle for the average roll (a 10). Taking 10 is especially useful in situations where a particularly high roll wouldn't help.
