[Unchained] VMC Sorcerer Bloodline Arcana

[Psyren]

I see a lot of folks simply assuming you don't get the bloodline arcana from VMC Sorcerer. However I'm having trouble finding a specific cite to support this reading.

We know Eldritch Heritage does not grant the arcana because it contains specific language preventing it: "You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities." However, the VMC Sorcerer bloodline ability does not have this line. And Bloodline Arcana is not a separate ability in the sorcerer entry - it is part of the "bloodline" class feature, which the VMC Sorcerer does give to you at 1st level.

So is there something specific (even a dev quote) that says "you don't get the bloodline arcana from your bloodline?"

[JRutterbush]

Hmm... it would seem that, by RAW, you would get the Bloodline Arcana.

However, I believe this is an oversight, since Variant Multiclassing doesn't give you a flat benefit at 1st level. The VMC classes that give you benefits at first level also give you drawbacks: the Paladin gives you Detect Evil, for example, but also requires you to follow the Paladin's code, while the Oracle gives you the Oracle's Curse, which is a built in drawback/benefit combo. There don't seem to be any VMC classes that give you a flat benefit at 1st level (especially one as potentially useful as a Bloodline Arcana) without a drawback to accompany it, so I would say that you're not meant to gain the Bloodline Arcana either, despite the wording.

[Mark Seifter]

Psyren wrote:

I see a lot of folks simply assuming you don't get the bloodline arcana from VMC Sorcerer. However I'm having trouble finding a specific cite to support this reading.

We know Eldritch Heritage does not grant the arcana because it contains specific language preventing it: "You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities." However, the VMC Sorcerer bloodline ability does not have this line. And Bloodline Arcana is not a separate ability in the sorcerer entry - it is part of the "bloodline" class feature, which the VMC Sorcerer does give to you at 1st level.

So is there something specific (even a dev quote) that says "you don't get the bloodline arcana from your bloodline?"

You get exactly what it says you get, and not anything else by RAW and RAI. It doesn't say you get bloodline arcana, so you don't get it.

[kestral287]

Just to clarify exactly why it's RAW that you don't get the arcana:

The VMC gives you bloodline powers.

A bloodline has four separate pieces: the Arcana, the Spells, the Feats, and the Powers. An ability that says "you gain the first-level bloodline power" gives you exactly that, the power. It can't give an arcana any more than an ability that says "you gain the third-level bloodline power" can also give you the bloodline spell normally gained at that level.

Eldritch Heritage's line preventing you from getting the arcana is useful clarifying text but redundant from a rules perspective.

[Psyren]

Mark Seifter wrote:

Psyren wrote:

I see a lot of folks simply assuming you don't get the bloodline arcana from VMC Sorcerer. However I'm having trouble finding a specific cite to support this reading.

We know Eldritch Heritage does not grant the arcana because it contains specific language preventing it: "You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities." However, the VMC Sorcerer bloodline ability does not have this line. And Bloodline Arcana is not a separate ability in the sorcerer entry - it is part of the "bloodline" class feature, which the VMC Sorcerer does give to you at 1st level.

So is there something specific (even a dev quote) that says "you don't get the bloodline arcana from your bloodline?"

You get exactly what it says you get, and not anything else by RAW and RAI. It doesn't say you get bloodline arcana, so you don't get it.

Thanks for the clarification Mark!

[JRutterbush]

Mark Seifter wrote:

You get exactly what it says you get, and not anything else by RAW and RAI. It doesn't say you get bloodline arcana, so you don't get it.

The problem is that it says you select a Bloodline, and gaining access to the Bloodline is what gives you the Bloodline Arcana as a Sorcerer. The Sorcerer class never actually says "You gain the Bloodline Arcana of your chosen bloodline." The way the Sorcerer descriptions are set up, the Bloodline Arcana is part of selecting the Bloodline.

If you say that you only get exactly what it says by RAW, then... by RAW, either the Sorcerer doesn't gain a Bloodline Arcana because it doesn't specifically say that you gain a Bloodline Arcana, or the VMC Sorcerer does, because it lets you select a Bloodline and the Bloodline Arcana is part of the Bloodline.

I'm not arguing that you should get the Bloodline Arcana of course, that would be far too powerful... I'm only pointing out why it might not seem as clear to some people when they're reading the ability. The language could have been more clear that you're only "selecting" a Bloodline for the purposes of any powers you gain access to.

[Samasboy1]

JRutterbush wrote:

The problem is that it says you select a Bloodline, and gaining access to the Bloodline is what gives you the Bloodline Arcana as a Sorcerer. The Sorcerer class never actually says "You gain the Bloodline Arcana of your chosen bloodline." The way the Sorcerer descriptions are set up, the Bloodline Arcana is part of selecting the Bloodline.

If you say that you only get exactly what it says by RAW, then... by RAW, either the Sorcerer doesn't gain a Bloodline Arcana because it doesn't specifically say that you gain a Bloodline Arcana, or the VMC Sorcerer does, because it lets you select a Bloodline and the Bloodline Arcana is part of the Bloodline.

+1