[Unchained] New Monster Stat Block


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

President, Jon Brazer Enterprises

So what do you think of the new monster stat block from Pathfinder Unchained? As a designer, I like it. The first monster I made using it took an hour, and that was with not having read the rules beforehand and having to go back a time or two to make adjustments to earlier steps after seeing what came later. But what about GM's? Do you like it? Do you think everything you need will be there in a shorter format?

President, Jon Brazer Enterprises

Second monster creation time: 33 minutes.

Former Editorial Intern

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I played around with it for the first time today, and am a little confused here and there. I'll have to sit down and read the examples a bit more thoroughly.

What I would have loved is a "monster creation character sheet" or basically a worksheet to track all of these steps. Hoping somebody will homebrew one someday...

President, Jon Brazer Enterprises

Yea, that's pretty much why my first took an hour. I'll be posting some example stat blocks after paizocon.


I was looking at this since I have some ideas for custom monsters in my campaign, but the process looks a little intimidating.


I haven't used it, but I skimmed it and it looks relatively straightforward once you figure out some of the details. I like it on principle and have some things in mind for it.

I will say that it's not as intuitive as it could have been. If Palladium of all people can put together a monster creation table that'll let me roll out five distinct monsters in an hour, and one of those five is a hundred-story-tall kaiju, Pazio could probably speed this one up from half an hour per creature.

But that's not necessarily a bad thing, and like I said I haven't tried it out yet.

President, Jon Brazer Enterprises

Xexyz wrote:
I was looking at this since I have some ideas for custom monsters in my campaign, but the process looks a little intimidating.

It might look intimidate, but I gotta say it really is a nice step by step process. It might look big but just take it one step at a time and it is not bad at all. Have a firm concept of your monster before starting it and it will come out in the end.


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After playing with it, my thoughts:

1. It is straightforward. There are a few things that aren't all that clear, but they're generally minor. Once you get building it's fairly easy to work with.

2. I'm not confident that it actually lines up with the CRs pitched. I'm seriously tempted to do some full-out fight comparisons to test it, but I'm hesitant for now.

3. It's a tool I wouldn't put in the hands of an inexperienced GM. Some of the abilities are far more powerful than others, and a GM who doesn't modify them accordingly could break the system. Energy Drain is a particularly glaring example. I was building at CR12, and rather quickly realized that six negative levels per turn (two per hit on three attacks, all at full BAB) was probably not a good thing to use with no save or counter beyond "don't get hit". Vampires get the same ability, but it has a strict once per round clause, making it dramatically less silly. Constant Invisibility is another one.

All in all: it's a useful tool, but you should be careful and know what you're doing.


how does it compare when used.

if you have 2 monsters, one built with the old rules and one with the new, how do they differ for the gm?


sleepingdragon wrote:

how does it compare when used.

if you have 2 monsters, one built with the old rules and one with the new, how do they differ for the gm?

It's going to depend on when the old one was built and how specialized it is. I put together a CR12 Variant Greedspawn and got this without much investment: Ranseur +21/+16/+11 (2D4+32 x3)

I then pitted him against a Catoblepas out of Bestiary 2, which for comparison has this: bite +18 (3d6+5), gore +18 (2d8+5/19–20), 2 hooves +16 (1d8+2)

That's an average of 37 per swing versus 15.5, 9, and 6.5*2=37.5 average per round. That was enough of a difference that I seriously questioned my understanding of the rules, but no, that really is how the damage is set up.

Now, the Cato does have some advantages: SR23 vs. none, 15' reach vs. 10' reach (though frankly, there's zero cost to going Large over Medium save a minimum CR), the breath weapon, and Diehard. But then, my Greedspawn had 50 more HP and DR 5/- far better saves, and slightly better AC.

I'm sure I could find a CR12 that would smash my Greedspawn as I originally built him into the dust-- any dragon would do it-- but for the role he was designed to fill, he's matching up against stuff like the Purple Worm and eating them for breakfast.

Of course, we can call that the system being overpowered or the Purple Worm and its kin sucking.

EDIT: Or do you mean ease of use?

In actual play it's pretty much the same as using a monster statblock. It's far easier to build monsters this way though.


I've been experimenting with the monster creation system and I enjoy it a lot. Mix-and-matching arrays, grafts, and options has made fulfilling creature concepts much quicker than the traditional monster creation method.

However, I'm fairly uncertain about how much I should be adjusting the calculations, or in what ways I should be. The provided monster blocks go beyond the outlines a lot, especially as they get into higher CRs. I guess since I'm not very experienced in creating creatures, I'm hesitant to trust my gut on the number adjustments.

The previous monster creation method was a bit intimidating. This new method has given me some good practice, and I may take another look at the traditional one.

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