Picking up a cursed item.


Advice


Question: One of my players is attempting to pick up a cursed weapon without touching it. He is using a bedroll to wrap it up. The group is in combat so I wanted to make him use some sort of DC to accomplish the move. What type of DC?

The Weapon: Cursed Corrosive Shortsword of Light - Along with normal damage, it does an additional 1d6 acid damage. Curse: Every time the sword gets a killing blow it glows brighter with rage. The brightness is faint at first (5ft) but with every kill it gets brighter (5ft per kill). When the weapon lands a crit it releases its stored energy with an explosion of acid. The acid is strongest at center point and splashes outward depending on its stored strength. For example if it had 25ft of stored strength the crit explodes 5d6 at the point of impact, 4d6 at 5ft, 3d6 at 10ft...etc. A reflex save gives half damage. DC save to sheath, drop, or give up the weapon is Will 10 + Users HD + Number Stored kills.

The Situation: The group ran into a horde of zombies, eight on the ground, and twelve hanging from nooses in a large tree. APL is 5 with four players and an NPC helper. As you can imagine the rogue with the sword was going around slaying the helpless ones hanging from the trees, alas building a massive amount of "rage". Talk about fun seeing a rogue hoping not to get a crit. He says "I'm going to sheath it and use my other sword." I request a will save of 22, he fails, I tell him he has to attack with the sword, he crits in the middle of 4 zombies, two player summons, a monk, and the ranger's hawk. He passes his Reflex save and with evasion takes no damage, everything else in range dies or is in critical condition (monk 1 hp). On the ranger's turn he disarms the rogue, then the monk bull rushes him away. I tell him he has to make another Will to not go for the sword and he finally passes. Now the ranger is trying to pick the sword up using a bedroll.


I'd say the ranger doesn't need any roll except to try and not get hit in combat if it's still going on. A simple dexterity roll netween 10-15 if you think the situation is stressful enough that there's no time to play around with the sword and bedroll and it might just fall back out on. The ground.

Also, the rogue is probably dead or near to as you don't get a reflex save if there's no way to dodge the effect, usually in the form of "there's nowhere to evade to" like throwing a fireball into a tight closed room, but this time because if he couldn't let go of the sword then he dragged the source of the explosion right with him.


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StDrake wrote:


Also, the rogue is probably dead or near to as you don't get a reflex save if there's no way to dodge the effect, usually in the form of "there's nowhere to evade to" like throwing a fireball into a tight closed room, but this time because if he couldn't let go of the sword then he dragged the source of the explosion right with him.

This is untrue, there is no provision in the rules for preventing reflex saves under any conditions, even helpless and paralyzed targets get reflex saves.


I would think a common sense ruling. If you can't move or get out of the way can't make a reflex save

Shadow Lodge

If you're making a commonsense rule on it, just be aware it's a houserule that you'd want everyone to be okay with.

As to the cursed bedroll trick, the bedroll is an attended item, so using it to pick up the cursed item to avoid bad things happening shouldn't work (and the player should be made aware of that before he does it). Again, if you want the player to get around it using this trick, it's another houserule.


OldSmith wrote:
I would think a common sense ruling. If you can't move or get out of the way can't make a reflex save

There is a huge risk that comes with such "common sense" house rules, and that is the fact that it allows casters to with minimal work negate all possibility for a saving throw, I mean, it makes sense that if a fireball goes off at your feat and you have no possible cover that you can't dodge it? but you are by the rules intended to be able to make a reflex save. A large number of the martial caster disparity arguments have a strong basis in rules being hand waved in favor of casters, or of saves being deprived because it makes sense that they would have no chance to avoid it.

I could make a wizard using entirely reflex save spells, and by level 7, I could by common sense ruling deny saving throws to any enemy I could target that was sized large or smaller. by 11th level, I could deny huge targets any chance of a save, and by level 15, nothing I targeted with a spell that granted a reflex save would ever get one. Its really easy to do, just widen a pit spell at lowish levels, in most rooms you just made a pit that hits either 2 or 3 walls, if you leave no space around the edge, logically there is no where for someone to stand so no one gets a save to avoid falling in right?

In 3.5 there was a FAQ about when you can be deprived of a reflex save, and the only time you could be deprived was if you were dead, because a corpse counts as an unattended object and unattended non magical objects don't get saves.


I would personally say that attempting to pick up the sword with a bedroll is a full round action that provokes attacks of opportunity.

As for being denied a reflex save goes, I think it makes perfect sense in the right situations. A character can use the reflex save to dive out the door to avoid a fireball in a very small room. However, if they are paralyzed or otherwise unable to move then how can they possibly attempt to move out of the way? But that's not the point here.

My husband's rule of thumb is that if you don't like his house rules, you can play in a different game. Chapter one of the Core Rulebook says something to the same effect. "Remember that these rules are yours. You can change them to fit your needs." The GM is god in a role playing game, what he or she says goes. Now with that said, don't let the power go to your head. Seriously consider reasonable arguments against your house rules. If you instate a bunch of your own rule variations that unbalance the game and make no sense, then your players will indeed go find a different game to play in.

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