A Blend of Inquiries


Rules Questions


Good day!

I've a few questions which have popped-up over time, yet their answers were either not discernible or of questionable resolution.

If you're feeling up to it, please have these a go. Sources would be great!

Spells with attack rolls

1. I recall reading somewhere Weapon Focus (Ray) was a valid choice. In the case this is true, is Weapon Focus (Ray) also a valid choice?

2. As in #1, could the feats be applied to melee touch attack (MTA) spells? Such as Weapon Focus (Touch). It's a bit kinky, albeit confusing.

3. Not restrictive to the scenarios posed in #1 and #2, do abilities such as Inspire Courage boost the damage of ray/MTA spells?

4. Do boosts to damage (perhaps from sources as per #1 and #3) from rays/MTA spells include ability damage?

5. Specifically, when is a held MTA spell discharged? On a sleeve if your finger brushes by it? On the hilt of a two-handed weapon? On tangible "objects" such as aqueous orb/wall of force?

Requisite wording

6. I saw numerous contradictory answers regarding the following question: Do half-elves (for example) fulfill the requirement of being "human" and/or "elven" for the purposes of taking feats that require one of those two races, traits that require one of the two races, or archetypes that require one of those two races?

7. As an extension of #6, would abilities/effects that target a race (not subtype) of partial ancestry to the target function as if that target were of that race?

8. Does the ability to cast spell-like abilities of a particular level qualify characters for certain prestige classes that require "Ability to cast spells of X level"?

9. Does proficiency in weapons such as "Longbow" or "Whip" extend to a more specific type, such as "Longbow, Composite" or "Whip, Scorpion"? Does the reverse apply? I ask mainly because while the inverted comma notation is used there, we do not have "Sword, Short", "Sword, Long", and "Sword, Bastard"

10. Is combining archetypes with "selective" alterations to abilities (such as a vivisectionist's choice to take a bleeding attack rogue talent instead of a discovery) and archetypes with "mandatory" alterations to abilities (such as the Preservationist's Bottled Ally VI replacing the discovery at 18th level) valid?

General

11. Can a snag net be used to trip an entangled "flying" creature if the creature is plummeting (perhaps due to an effect such as entanglement)?

12. For exactly which d20 rolls is a natural 1/20 considered automatic failure/success?

13. Can abilities such as the versatile evocation power of the admixture subschool be applied to spells not of their parent class?

14. How many rerolls can a creature under the influence of a cackled fortune hex chose to take? In essence, what does "benefited" mean?

15. As full plate encases nearly a humanoid's entire body, does it grant improved cover?

16. How large does an object need to be to grant partial cover? If it is with respect a creature's size, is this comparison made with only the surface area of the creature visible to the target?

17. Could an internal alchemist "sleep" for 1000 years via breath mastery?

18. Is it possible to have a caster level higher than a character level under certain circumstances, such as the Sorcerer's Arial bloodline?

19. How good (or evil) of an act is using a merciful (as per metamagic) disintegrate spell to "incapacitate" a foe?

The last one is a doozy:

19. Suppose the following centaur-like creature possesses the following:

2 arms wielding a greatsword
2 additional arms via alchemist discoveries wielding daggers
2 hoof attacks
1 bite natural attack

With a BAB of +8 (with other melee modifiers totaling +0), multiattack, TWF, improved TWF, and under the effects of haste (whose bonus to ATK is negated by other modifiers), what are:

A. The maximum # of total attacks able to be performed in a round?
B. How many of the attacks in A are natural/manufactured?
C. What would the attack bonus on each of the attacks in A be?

Many thanks!


With that last one, assuming I understand how Vestigial arm works correctly (as it specifically says it does not grant extra attacks):

5 attacks (With Greatsword, Hooves, and Bite)
or 6 Attacks (Both Daggers, Hooves, and Bite)

Greatsword/daggers are manufactured, hooves and bite are natural

Regular iteratives for Greatsword/mainhand dagger (assuming you don't use both daggers, otherwise, you take 2-weapon fighting penalties)

2-weapon fighting penalties for offhand dagger

Flat -5 off of your BAB for all your natural attacks.


Thanks for your response, Arctic!

I made a typo I need to correct:

Krek wrote:

1. I recall reading somewhere Weapon Focus (Ray) was a valid choice. In the case this is true, is Weapon Focus (Ray) also a valid choice?

I meant Weapon Specialization (Ray) for the latter feat.


Alright, so I'll try to provide some information but I can't cite sources (hopefully someone else can).

1. You can take it for Weapon Focus because it says so in the description of Weapon Focus. In theory you can for Weapon Specialization, it's not explicitly stated though.

2. No, because you can't take Weapon Focus (touch). "Touch" is not a weapon or listed exception.

3. Yes.

4. No. Only HP damage is increased.

5. Short answer, if you touch something. Long answer? If you intentionally touch something. That accidental line in the "touch attacks discharging" rules causes no end of problems and makes no sense. I don't mean that in that I don't like it, I mean that it's impossible to reconcile them with, say, your ability to walk without immediately discharging the spell.

6. Yes. Period. That was a recent FAQ though.

7. Yes. That's literally all it did before the FAQ opened up more stuff. "Elf Blood: Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race."

8. Not anymore! Most recent FAQ, I think.

9. No. Of course, the composite longbow then says "For purposes of Weapon Proficiency and similar feats, a composite longbow is treated as if it were a longbow." Ditto the Scorpion Whip, I think. They're interchangeable because the weapon gives you proficiency if you have proficiency in the other version.

10. Archetypes can't be stacked if they replace or modify the same feature. The ability to take bleeding attack in place of a discovery does not modify or replace any class features, so it would stack with everything.

11. Can't trip except on your turn (and they fall on theirs). Once you do you're just trying to trip them, can't trip flying creatures.

12. Attacks and saves. Probably some specific case I'm forgetting, but absolutely attacks and saves.

And now I'm way too many questions in, I might get to the rest later.


1. Weapon Focus/Specialization (etc) ray are valid; you must still have the fighter levels for specialization etc. Focus applies to any attack roll on any ray spell. Specialization only applies to numerical HP damage spells (i.e. ray of frost would do 1d3+2 dmg, but ray of exhaution/enfeeblement etc would have no benefit). Similarly if a ray deals both hp damage and some secondary effect/deals ability damage the benefit is only to the hit point damage, and not to the secondary effect.

2. Same as 1.

3. Same as 1.

4. No.

5. The Devs have basically said "when it would make sense and be mechanically beneficial to the spell caster." See the Magus - they explain things in more detail there.

6. A half x/y counts as an x, a y, and an x/y for all effects beneficial and negative.

7. See 6.

8. No; they recently changed a FAQ - you can find it with a quick forums search.

9. Composite bows (long/short) are treated as being (long/short) bows, otherwise separate entries are separate weapons.

10. Theres a Core Rule Book FAQ about this relating to the Quingong Monk Archetype. Yes you MUST replace selective features with mandatory ones.

11. If a flying creature is plummeting trip doesn't do anything to them (a successful trip attempt knocks a flying creature from the air - I believe they get a reflex save or acrobatics check to avoid landing prone)

12. Skill checks are not automatic success/failure unless your GM houserules it otherwise, if something says it does not auto success/fail on a 20/1 then it does not; crit success/failure is otherwise in effect.

13. Don't know off-hand; will check later

14. Fortune hex is at most 1/rnd - cackle does not affect this. Cackle extends the duration 1 rnd.

15. Not unless your GM houserules it. A towershield can however.

16. Read the Cover section of the CRB

17. Unsure offhand.

18. Under certain circumstances; it varies considerably by ability. Most say something like "up to your maximum level;" a few do not.

19. Your GM will tell you if it isn't obvious.

20. Regardless of the number of weapons you can physically wield, you are restricted to making your normal full attack action number of attacks with manufactured weapons (this increases as normal with TWF). You can make all of the natural weapon attacks (assuming you're not an eidolon or something else which is restricted to x natural attacks per round by level) as part of a full attack action. They all take a -5 to hit (on top of any normal penalties - such as TWF) if you attack with a manufactured weapon in the same round.


Krek wrote:

Good day!

I've a few questions which have popped-up over time, yet their answers were either not discernible or of questionable resolution.

If you're feeling up to it, please have these a go. Sources would be great!

Spells with attack rolls

1. I recall reading somewhere Weapon Focus (Ray) was a valid choice. In the case this is true, is Weapon Focus (Ray) also a valid choice?

Yes.

Krek wrote:
2. As in #1, could the feats be applied to melee touch attack (MTA) spells? Such as Weapon Focus (Touch). It's a bit kinky, albeit confusing.

No.

Krek wrote:
3. Not restrictive to the scenarios posed in #1 and #2, do abilities such as Inspire Courage boost the damage of ray/MTA spells?

Yes.

Krek wrote:
4. Do boosts to damage (perhaps from sources as per #1 and #3) from rays/MTA spells include ability damage?

No.

Krek wrote:
5. Specifically, when is a held MTA spell discharged? On a sleeve if your finger brushes by it? On the hilt of a two-handed weapon? On tangible "objects" such as aqueous orb/wall of force?

Whenever you willingly, specifically touch something. If you open a door, it discharges. If you draw a weapo or potion, it discharges. If someone touches YOU, it does not.

Krek wrote:

Requisite wording

6. I saw numerous contradictory answers regarding the following question: Do half-elves (for example) fulfill the requirement of being "human" and/or "elven" for the purposes of taking feats that require one of those two races, traits that require one of the two races, or archetypes that require one of those two races?

Yes. They may take all Human and Elf Traits, Feats, Archetypes, or Spells, and anything else of the sort. There was a FAQ on this.

Krek wrote:
7. As an extension of #6, would abilities/effects that target a race (not subtype) of partial ancestry to the target function as if that target were of that race?

Yes. Half-Orcs and Half-Elves specifically say this in their Orc Blood/Elf Blood things.

Krek wrote:
8. Does the ability to cast spell-like abilities of a particular level qualify characters for certain prestige classes that require "Ability to cast spells of X level"?

Up until recently, yes. That FAQ was reverted. People got mad.

Krek wrote:
9. Does proficiency in weapons such as "Longbow" or "Whip" extend to a more specific type, such as "Longbow, Composite" or "Whip, Scorpion"? Does the reverse apply? I ask mainly because while the inverted comma notation is used there, we do not have "Sword, Short", "Sword, Long", and "Sword, Bastard"

In those specific cases, yes (those weapons specifically are called out as working as the other weapon and proficiency applying and all). But not in all cases.

In general, no, proficiency in one weapon does not necessarily give you proficiency in a similar weapon.

Krek wrote:
10. Is combining archetypes with "selective" alterations to abilities (such as a vivisectionist's choice to take a bleeding attack rogue talent instead of a discovery) and archetypes with "mandatory" alterations to abilities (such as the Preservationist's Bottled Ally VI replacing the discovery at 18th level) valid?

Yes, however you have to be very careful with the wording. For example, if you're trying to stack archetypes where one changes teh entire list of Bonus Feats, while another adds a few extra ones to the list, those do NOT technically stack. Most GMs would allow it, however.

Krek wrote:

General

11. Can a snag net be used to trip an entangled "flying" creature if the creature is plummeting (perhaps due to an effect such as entanglement)?

Fying creatures cannot be Tripped. If it is already falling, then it will land Prone anyway.

Krek wrote:
12. For exactly which d20 rolls is a natural 1/20 considered automatic failure/success?

Attack rolls and saving throws. NOTHING else.

Krek wrote:
13. Can abilities such as the versatile evocation power of the admixture subschool be applied to spells not of their parent class?

Yes.

Krek wrote:
14. How many rerolls can a creature under the influence of a cackled fortune hex chose to take? In essence, what does "benefited" mean?

One. Cackle extends the duration, not the number of times you can benefit from it.

Krek wrote:
15. As full plate encases nearly a humanoid's entire body, does it grant improved cover?

No, and I'm not sure why you would think it does.

Krek wrote:
16. How large does an object need to be to grant partial cover? If it is with respect a creature's size, is this comparison made with only the surface area of the creature visible to the target?

"To determine whether your target has cover from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target's square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature, the target has cover (+4 to AC).

When making a melee attack against an adjacent target, your target has cover if any line from any corner of your square to the target's square goes through a wall (including a low wall). When making a melee attack against a target that isn't adjacent to you (such as with a reach weapon), use the rules for determining cover from ranged attacks."

"If a creature has cover, but more than half the creature is visible, its cover bonus is reduced to a +2 to AC and a +1 bonus on Reflex saving throws. This partial cover is subject to the GM's discretion."

Krek wrote:
17. Could an internal alchemist "sleep" for 1000 years via breath mastery?

If he can live that long, sure.

Krek wrote:
18. Is it possible to have a caster level higher than a character level under certain circumstances, such as the Sorcerer's Arial bloodline?

Yes. Most casters are actually EXPECTED to at high levels.

Krek wrote:
19. How good (or evil) of an act is using a merciful (as per metamagic) disintegrate spell to "incapacitate" a foe?

No more good or evil than using any other spell.

Krek wrote:

The last one is a doozy:

19. Suppose the following centaur-like creature possesses the following:

2 arms wielding a greatsword
2 additional arms via alchemist discoveries wielding daggers
2 hoof attacks
1 bite natural attack

With a BAB of +8 (with other melee modifiers totaling +0), multiattack, TWF, improved TWF, and under the effects of haste (whose bonus to ATK is negated by other modifiers), what are:

A. The maximum # of total attacks able to be performed in a round?
B. How many of the attacks in A are natural/manufactured?
C. What would the attack bonus on each of the attacks in A be?

Many thanks!

A.) 8

B.) 5 Manufactured (2 Greatword, 2 dagger, 1 Haste), 3 Natural
C.) How would I know? I don't have the guy's stats.

I'll also note that you could benefit from reading both the Core Rulebook and FAQ before posting follow-up questions, as most of these are answered there.


1. For purposes of weapon feats (and other things that modify weapon damage,) Ray is considered a weapon.

So weapon focus (ray,) improved critical (ray,) weapon specialisation (ray) if you're a multiclass or gestalt with fighter, etc, they work.

2. Touch spells in general aren't considered weapons. You might be able to convince your GM about missile spells such as Acid Arrow, though.

3. Rays, yes. Touch spells in general, no.

4. Modifiers apply to hit point damage only --- ability damage, Enervate's negative levels, etc, are not hit point damage (even if they can reduce max HP through negative levels or Con damage or whatever.)

5. Whenever your touching appendage (generally your off-hand) makes contact with something that qualifies as a target, unless that something is worn; your gauntlets won't get dusted by your Scroll of Rusting Grasp. The hilt of your greatsword, however...

6. Half-elves are human and elf for most purposes. They can take either race's feats; they can use either race's traits (but not Alternate Racial Traits.) This also means that Human Bane and Elf Bane both work; and a ranger gets bonuses against half-elves with either Humanoid/Elf or Humanoid/Human.

7. Yep!

8. No. An SLA counts as being able to cast that spell; but not its spell level.

9. It's not usually the case. With composite bows, you can just use the regular bow proficiencies; but the scorpion whip needs its own proficiency - and, if you want to use whip CMBs with it, ALSO needs whip proficiency.

10. In this case, due to how the vivisectionist's rogue-talent feature works (that is, it lets you take it in place of a discovery,) it doesn't interfere with Preservationist replacing the 18th level discovery with Bottled Ally 6.

----

Breaking to next post. :)


11. No. Flying creatures cannot be tripped, even if entangled or falling.

12. All attacks, saves, and checks (unless explicitly stated otherwise) are subject to the "1 fails, 20 passes" rule.

13. Usually.

14. The target still only gets one reroll; Cackle only extends the window in which the target gets to use it. Benefitted, in this case, means used the reroll.

15. Armour does not grant cover.

16. Easier to explain this way.

17. In theory, yes. But keep in mind that you'll have to set your trigger condition carefully, or you might not last that long.

18. There are a few interesting ways to get your caster level higher than it should be.

19. Oh, merciful Disintegrate. The ethics are situational. If you're casting it on the dragon that's about to eat the princess, it's pro'ly good; if you're casting it on the princess to make her easier to eat, it's pro'ly evil.

Keep in mind that if you hit hard enough with merciful Disintegrate, though, it may still dust the target...

I'll... leave the last one alone.


I'm skipping over a lot of the ones that are covered well, maybe doing some explaining for why the rules are the way they are. Answering some of the rest.

Spells With Attack Rolls:

Rays are explicitly listed, which is the only reason they're legal as 'weapon-like' for such feats.

3.5 had this for Rays, Ranged Touch, and Melee Touch. Your GM may be willing to institute a similar policy. However, by PF RAW, the only spells you can be Weapon Focused in are Rays.

Requisite Wording:

Half-Elves are considered both Humans and Elves for basically everything.

Spell-Like Abilities used to qualify a character for 'ability to cast X level spells', which lead to such things as Scryer Wizard 1/Fighter 1/Eldritch Knight 10 being legal. That rule was not in effect for a long time before it was reversed, and there are mixed feelings on it. On the one hand, it rendered prestige classes very difficult to use effectively. On the other, it got kind of silly at times (you could take ten levels of Eldritch Knight with no ability to actually cast spells)

General:

Natural 1/20s only apply to saves and attack rolls. Not to skills (the Take 20 mechanic sort of forces that), not to attribute rolls, not to anything else. A great many GMs operate under some sort of houserule in that regard, but that's the rule.

Incidentally, all that the natural 1/20 does is create success or failure. A natural 1 doesn't cause you to drop your sword, for example. "Critical fumbles" are another common houserule that... mostly just encourage everybody to play a caster.

Caster levels above character levels are not only plausible, they're virtually guaranteed if the caster has any idea what he's doing and a bit of money. The Orange Prism Ioun Stone is a staple piece of caster gear, but even simpler the Varisian Tattoo feat can be taken as early as level one and grants +1 caster level to a school of spells, or Spell Specialization for +2 caster level to a specific spell.

Acts of good and evil are entirely dependent on what the GM says they are. There are a great many debates about this sort of thing, so the best bet is "talk to your GM".

Centaur-guy's attacks look like this:
Greatsword +6/+6/+1, Dagger +6/+1, Bite +6, Hoofx2 +6

Eight attacks in total. Notably, the second dagger he's holding is totally wasted. This is due to how the Alchemist's extra arm discovery operates: it cannot be used to gain more attacks. So, he's treated as if he had regular TWF worth of attacks, and no more.

If he had four full arms, perhaps from being a mutated Kasatha, then he would instead look like this:

Greatsword +6/+6/+1, Dagger +6/+1, Dagger +6, Bite +6, Hoofx2 +6

One of the Greatsword attacks could actually be made with any weapon (it's the Haste attack), but Greatsword is its most likely placement.

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