[Unchained] Why replace standard multiclassing with variant multiclassing?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Silver Crusade Contributor

Kaouse wrote:
Does the Sorcerer VMC give you the bloodline arcana? How different is it from the basic Eldritch Heritage line?

No Arcana. :/

No Skill Focus or Charisma 13 requirement, and no -2 to effective sorcerer level. :)

No skipping the 3rd bloodline power, no stopping after only one or two hits. :(

3rd: 1st bloodline power.

7th: 3rd bloodline power.

11th: Gain a bloodline feat or Eschew Materials.

15th: 9th bloodline power.

19th: 15th bloodline power.

Hope this helps. :)

Sovereign Court

Kaouse wrote:
Does the Sorcerer VMC give you the bloodline arcana? How different is it from the basic Eldritch Heritage line?

No arcana. Full sorcerer levels for bloodline powers, you a bunch of bloodline powers + A bloodline feat or eschew materials, guess the biggest advantage compared to the other one, you don't need to rely on having any charisma or even bumping it or even take a feat like skill focus on a skill that you aren't going to use anyway.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kaouse wrote:
Does the Sorcerer VMC give you the bloodline arcana? How different is it from the basic Eldritch Heritage line?

You don't get the bloodline arcana.

I'd say the primary difference is that you don't need to have 17 Charisma to take the whole thing...though you also don't have to wait until 11th level to get the 3rd level bloodline power. And don't have a -2 penalty on your effective sorcerer level. But on the other hand, you can't get the 9th level one until 15th level, and don't get the 15th level one until 19th level.

So, hypothetically, with eldritch heritage, if you want the entire thing, you take Skill Focus (X), you take Eldritch Heritage, you take Improved Eldritch Heritage (3rd), Improved Eldritch Heritage (9th), and Greater Eldritch Heritage, you're losing five feats. Variant multiclass has you losing five feats, but you get to ignore Charisma, and instead of Skill Focus, you get either a bloodline feat or Eschew Materials for free, and you get it at your full character level instead of with a -2 penalty. And if you have no desire for any feats at all, I suppose you could do both of them?

Edit: And I have been thoroughly ninja-ed.


Sandslice wrote:
Starbuck_II wrote:
Does specifically say this? Or are just thinking it logically works like this?

It explicitly says that you choose your VMC secondary class at 1st level. This is further reinforced by the fact that ethos-bound characters (eg, paladins, clerics, and druids) are bound to their ethos at 1st level, and VMC-sorcerers choose their Bloodline at 1st also.

The change caused by VMC is similar to an archetype that affects:[Snip]

I'd also like to point out this concept is thoroughly reinforced by retraining it has a cost based on levels as opposed to feats; which strongly suggests treating it as a feat option is erroneous.

Anyway, other reasons to do it include but aren't limited to: Be a non-unchained Barbarian, take Bard VMC, get a Courageous weapon. Hit things really hard.
Be a Shaman (Witch Doctor archetype), take the life spirit, take cleric VMC...Well, I assume someone would like to channel all day!

Also, as covered - grabbing the teleportation school from wizard is hella useful for a martial character. Because, you know, pounce wasn't enough - sometimes the enemy hides behind a wall, or minions.

Also - Bard VMC granting Bardic Knowledge is just nice if the party lacks a good knowledge monkey.


I guess if I was going to go all the way for Greater Eldritch Heritage, the Sorcerer VMC might be slightly superior. If I only wanted the 9th level power though, I might have to go for the 15 CHA.


My first reaction to the Sorcerer VMC is that almost every two-handed martial I make is going to be Sorcerer(orc) VMC, minus barbarians/bloodragers. Barbarians are only a maybe too, mainly due to the level 3 and 7 abilities being hard to use and/or covered by rage powers already. And bloodragers only because I think you are only allowed to VMC the sorcerer bloodline you already have. So no orc bloodline. (Bloodrager(Abyssal) and VMC(Abyssal) looks interesting for the double strength boost though.) Only the first level power is bad(and a second feat makes it usable and a trait makes it great).

Ability Breakdown:

Level 3: Gain Touch of Rage: Standard Action touch a target to give +1/2 level attack, damage, and will morale bonus for one round. 3+Cha mod uses a day.

Can be boosted with traits: Optimistic Gambler boosts it for 1d4 rounds, but is a campaign trait, so use is iffy.

Community-minded extends it for two rounds, making it usable, especially in scenarios where you won't even be able to attack until the next round anyways.

Can be boosted with feats: Quicken Spell-like Ability works great, as you likely wont have more than 3 uses anyways. Extend probably isn't worth feat.

Other drawbacks: Probably falls under the new rage FAQ, so wouldn't stack with barbarian/bloodrager rages. Since it seems to be based off of the rage spell, QSA cant be taken until after level 14, which is quite late.

Level 7: Gain +4 to saves versus feat and +1 Natural Armor. Ok at this point, but at level nine this grows to fear immunity and +2 Natural Armor, which is more than worth a feat if you don't have a separate NA source.

Level 11: Bonus feat and guess what, Power Attack is on the bloodline list, so take it and retrain the feat you spent on PA to whatever you want.

Level 15: The real reason to take this: +4 inherent bonus to strength, increasing to +6 at level 17.

Level 19: Power of Giants: Basically Giant Form 1 as a SLA 1/day but can spend the duration in minute intervals. Very solid self-polymorph especially for anyone who cant get another poly reliably.


The Will saving throw won't stack between Touch of Rage and Rage, but the rest certainly should. It's similar to the Rage spell, perhaps, but definitely isn't Rage.

I'm not sure it's something to put on every two-handed martial, honestly, because some of them could use the feats elsewhere and the biggest edge kicks in really, really late. But it is a strong choice.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kaouse wrote:
I guess if I was going to go all the way for Greater Eldritch Heritage, the Sorcerer VMC might be slightly superior. If I only wanted the 9th level power though, I might have to go for the 15 CHA.

Yeah, really depends how deep into it you want to go...and what kind of class you're playing. Some classes can spare Charisma more easily than other classes, generally...a monk with 15 Charisma is pretty hard to pull off, for example, while a ninja or a paladin would probably have less trouble going for it, and it would be easy for an oracle or a sorcerer.


kestral287 wrote:

The Will saving throw won't stack between Touch of Rage and Rage, but the rest certainly should. It's similar to the Rage spell, perhaps, but definitely isn't Rage.

I'm not sure it's something to put on every two-handed martial, honestly, because some of them could use the feats elsewhere and the biggest edge kicks in really, really late. But it is a strong choice.

Yeah, there are certain builds it doesn't work with, but Ive played a couple characters that took the EH chain for Orc, and overall I would rate this as better except for my current bloodrager.

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