What to do with Ajani Goldmane's weapon?

[synjon]

Alright, so my son is wanting to play a barbarian character using the image of Ajani Goldmane (Ajani-Vengeant image, IIRC). I've created an alternate racial trait for catfolk to mimic the larger feline races, subbing a +2 STR for the +2 DEX. Everything else is falling into place pretty nicely.

The only stumbling block I'm running into is how to stat the weapon Ajani is holding in the image - it looks similar to an axe, but with more of a pendulum-looking head. I've discovered the weapon is supposed to be double-ended, but the image I have doesn't show that, which I'm fine with. Going thru the D20PSFRD, I don't really see anything that looks like a proper match for the weapon - the closest options are either a standard battle/great axe, or an exotic hooked axe (which gives the trip & disarm special qualities).

You can go to Ajani-Vengeant to see the image, if you're not familiar with it.

Does anybody have any thoughts/advice on how they would stat this? Thanks...

[MaxAstro]

I would go with a two-bladed sword modified into a two-bladed axe. Keep the damage the same, but change the critical from 19-20, which is usually a "sword" crit range, to x3, which is the standard "axe" crit range.

EDIT: Also, that picture does show the weapon being two-bladed; if you look at the bottom near Ajani's feet you can see the second blade.

[synjon]

The version I have on my pc has the bottom of the pic cut off, so I only recently realized it was a double-weapon. My son & I are fine with keeping it to just a single blade, as TWF isn't a barbarian's forte in the 1st place....

[Shae'ura-Drae]

I would just make it a scythe. If you wanted the double weapon aspect I would go with a scythe/spear or scythe/axe.

[Harrison]

MaxAstro wrote:

I would go with a two-bladed sword modified into a two-bladed axe. Keep the damage the same, but change the critical from 19-20, which is usually a "sword" crit range, to x3, which is the standard "axe" crit range.

EDIT: Also, that picture does show the weapon being two-bladed; if you look at the bottom near Ajani's feet you can see the second blade.

What you're describing already exists: it's the Orc Double Axe. 1d8/1d8 DMG(M), 20/x3 crit range, 5 lbs heavier than the Two-Bladed Sword but 40 gold cheaper.

[Bob Bob Bob]

You want Monk's Spade. Big wide blade on one side, curved pointy thing on the other side.

Oh, and you never have to use a double weapon to two-weapon fight. You can just ignore the second side and use it to two-handed fight as normal.

[synjon]

Shae'ura-Drae wrote:

I would just make it a scythe. If you wanted the double weapon aspect I would go with a scythe/spear or scythe/axe.

Not to be overly nitpicky, but isn't the blade of a scythe on the interior? If it's not that big of a deal, how about a fauchard? Not sure if I want a reach weapon, though - the party has an inquisitor of Shelyn already...

Appreciating the feedback so far, please keep it coming!

[synjon]

Bob Bob Bob wrote:

You want Monk's Spade. Big wide blade on one side, curved pointy thing on the other side.

Oh, and you never have to use a double weapon to two-weapon fight. You can just ignore the second side and use it to two-handed fight as normal.

That might work from a descriptive side, was hoping for something with more damage potential, seeing as it's being wielded by a barbarian. 1D6 isn't much to get excited about... :(

[Movin]

You could always call it this.
Longaxe
Only works for the one head version that you had in mind but 1d12 and reach is a nasty combo with a barbarian.
Not that dice actually matter anything once rage come into play. 1d12+26 or 1d2+26 ultimately make little difference, much of a weapons value comes from its critical hit mod and other abilites.
the monks spade can hit all 3 DR types in a single weapon, which means you won't need to trade out for something else when the skeletons come in.

[Bob Bob Bob]

If your barbarian is relying on weapon damage dice something has gone horribly wrong (or you're using a trick build). Let me lay this out.

A barbarian with 18 strength and power attack two-handing a weapon should be doing:

[weapon]+6(str)+3(PA)
or [weapon]+9(str)+3(PA) with rage.

The biggest weapon you can get without a feat is a greatsword at 2d6. The difference between that and the spade is 1d6 (average 3.5). With the highest possible roll (and lowest on the other d6) it's a third of the damage, with the average roll it's more like 1/6th of the total damage.

At higher levels the gap just grows, to the point that a barbarian should be easily able to hit [weapon]+25 at level 12 (regardless of the weapon used, +12 PA +13 Str with rage and a +4 belt). You could be beating them to death with a table leg with those numbers, provided it was big enough to two-hand.

[Dafydd]

Bob and Movin are correct, the damage die matters very little for the barbarian. At best, level 1, the max damage from the weapon will be about half the total damage, often times it will be closer to 1/4 or 1/3.

The Orc Double Axe is what Ajani uses if he planewalked into Pathfinder world. This is clearer in other pictures (it kinda has this weird light/dark thing going on in some of them, like the promo vengant or in goldmane's pic). So if you wanna keep to source, an Orc Double Axe with opposing enchantments on the heads would be good. (Holy one end, unholy the other, flaming one side, frost the other etc)

[Drogos]

Yeah, if someone came to me and wanted to use that weapon, I'd just make it a variant orc double axe.

[synjon]

Well, first, as I stated above, I'm not concerned with a double weapon (remember, I mentioned the image we had is cut off at the bottom). I totally get that he doesn't have to fight with it using TWF - it's just not really that important in this case. So, double-weapon or not isn't a big issue either way.

With a great sword, a two-handed barbarian with 18STR & PA is averaging 14pts per swing. The barbarian with the monk's spade is averaging 10pts per swing. At later levels, I get that the damage die isn't particularly important - but for those 1st couple of levels, those extra 3-4 points may be the difference between a dead foe and a severely wounded foe (who is still doing full damage with their attack). Granted, that's only for a couple of levels, but the barbarian is more likely to go down if his opponent's keep getting an extra attack because he didn't take them out with the 1st hit.

I also hesitated at first because I thought the monk's spade was an exotic weapon - it's listed on D20PFSRD under Eastern Weapons, which I thought were all exotic. Checking the PF SRD, however, I see it's martial (makes you wonder why/how eastern weapons aren't all exotic, but whatever...). The ability to have all three damage types available is interesting, though... Also somewhat disappointing that the crit is only 20/x2.

Much more important than that, though, is the fact that it's an 11yr old playing the character - he's a smart kid, so if I can present him a solid argument in favor of a particular weapon, he'll generally go with it. But, like most kids, he still likes to roll the bigger dice & get those devastating critical hits, lol....

Thanks for all the input/advice so far - you guys are very helpful in making me examine things in ways I hadn't previously considered!

[Shae'ura-Drae]

As for my scythe suggestion. Yes the blade is on the inner side of the weapon but as a gm it would be easier to just add fluff and maybe call it something different but have it function as a scythe mechanically. Most other weapons are going to require exotic weapon proficiency which is *usually* not worth the feat sacrifice. A scythe has nice damage output and a great crit multiplier though nat 20's are rare.

I think if you could even still just call it a scythe or thresher or something else similar and have it look just like Ajani's weapon it would fit the bill perfectly. No reason to design a whole knew weapon just because a traditional scythe has the edge on it's inner curve (which as a gm you could easily remedy by stating his people tend to place the blade on the outer curve for more warlike reasons) and definitely not worth forcing him to take exotic weapon prof for a mediocre weapon.

[Dave Justus]

If you don't want it to be a double weapon, then just have it be a battle axe. Historically there was quite a bit of variation in axe design.

You could call it something else of course if wish, but I would use battle axe stats.

[synjon]

I'm inclined to go with a hook axe for specs, & just make it martial rather than exotic - have no idea why it's an exotic weapon, when there are plenty of other one-handed martial weapons with similar capabilities... -

Hooked Axe

Benefit: The hooked end of this axe’s blade can be used to disarm foes or pull them off balance. A hooked axe can be used as a martial weapon (in which case it functions like a battleaxe).

Cost: 20gp
Dmg (M): 1d8
Crit: x3
Weight: 7lbs
Dmg Type: slashing
Special: Disarm, Performance, Trip

So it's basically a battleaxe with Trip/Disarm/Performance. I just don't really see this as being OP if I make it a martial weapon.

[Suthainn]

Two useful specials on it is most likely the reason for it being exotic, special abilities on weapons tend to be highly rated.

Honestly, just go with a Battleaxe in my opinion. It looks pretty much fine from a graphical point of view, axes have a huge variety of shapes, you don't need to change a thing to try and explain it, if he wants something with a better damage dice go Greataxe, the picture is simply holding it on one hand and would two hand it to attack.

[Bob Bob Bob]

If he's a smart kid you don't have to make an argument for weapons to him. Just present him the options and tell him he has to decided whether he wants to sacrifice flavor (and that specific image) for practicality (bigger damage dice, better crit range).

[synjon]

Well, my son ruled out the monk's spade & the Shoanti earthbreaker. All I did was explain each weapon's stats & possible flavor (his character is from the Curchain Hills inside the Shoanti Hawk Clan's territory).

We're down to either a regular greataxe or the hooked-axe (house-ruled as a martial weapon - there are at least 3 other one-handed martial weapons with 2 special combat abilities doing similar damage on the srd, so I feel it's not going to be a game-breaker.

Personally, I suspect he'll end up going with the greataxe, as he commented that as much as the extra damage, it was just simpler....

Like I said, smart kid, lol.

[OldSmith]

It looks to be a take on a crescent blade. So would fall into the pole arms catagory

[Azoriel]

Spade-headed or not, I see nothing wrong with making it a greataxe. It certainly wouldn't be the first time there was a D&D greataxe with a nonstandard appearance; the equicephs in 3.0 used greataxes that looked like short-handled glaives. (Link to the original picture that went with their stats.)

What the lion-man is holding looks very similar in appearance to the "fan axe" which sometimes appears in ancient Egyptian art. (Another link for you - you'll need to scroll down a ways to find it. They suggest that it's more of a halberd, but I think they mean more in the sense that it's a two-handed affair rather than any kind of D&D equivalency.)