Black Blade question.


Rules Questions


I am just wondering what the effective caster level of the Magus' black blade is for the purposes of the alignment detection spells.

Grand Lodge

Since the entire black blade progression is based off of the magus level I'd have to say it's however many magus levels you have. This isn't explicitly defined anywhere so it's probably about the best you're going to get.


Not sure if it matters, but when you see a table that says "aligned creature" it doesn't mean a creatures alignment. It means there is a subtype [Good] or [Evil] or [Lawful] or etc.

Detect Good/Evil/etc don't trigger off a "normal" alignment of a creature. There is even a note in the spell Detect Evil indicating a creature will trigger the detection if it has evil intent due to this, because it normally doesn't trigger the spell.

Basically, unless that Magus/Black Blade is in the process of doing a vile deed, the spell won't trigger even if they are Chaotic Evil.


Skylancer4 wrote:

Not sure if it matters, but when you see a table that says "aligned creature" it doesn't mean a creatures alignment. It means there is a subtype [Good] or [Evil] or [Lawful] or etc.

Detect Good/Evil/etc don't trigger off a "normal" alignment of a creature. There is even a note in the spell Detect Evil indicating a creature will trigger the detection if it has evil intent due to this, because it normally doesn't trigger the spell.

Basically, unless that Magus/Black Blade is in the process of doing a vile deed, the spell won't trigger even if they are Chaotic Evil.

Based on that undead would never detect as evil.


Milo v3 wrote:
Skylancer4 wrote:

Not sure if it matters, but when you see a table that says "aligned creature" it doesn't mean a creatures alignment. It means there is a subtype [Good] or [Evil] or [Lawful] or etc.

Detect Good/Evil/etc don't trigger off a "normal" alignment of a creature. There is even a note in the spell Detect Evil indicating a creature will trigger the detection if it has evil intent due to this, because it normally doesn't trigger the spell.

Basically, unless that Magus/Black Blade is in the process of doing a vile deed, the spell won't trigger even if they are Chaotic Evil.

Based on that undead would never detect as evil.

Have you read the spell any time recently? Outsiders and undead both have their own section in the table so they would get detected as per the spell write up. Like it says in the table.


Skylancer4 wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
Skylancer4 wrote:

Not sure if it matters, but when you see a table that says "aligned creature" it doesn't mean a creatures alignment. It means there is a subtype [Good] or [Evil] or [Lawful] or etc.

Detect Good/Evil/etc don't trigger off a "normal" alignment of a creature. There is even a note in the spell Detect Evil indicating a creature will trigger the detection if it has evil intent due to this, because it normally doesn't trigger the spell.

Basically, unless that Magus/Black Blade is in the process of doing a vile deed, the spell won't trigger even if they are Chaotic Evil.

Based on that undead would never detect as evil.
Have you read the spell any time recently? Outsiders and undead both have their own section in the table so they would get detected as per the spell write up. Like it says in the table.

Thats why I brought it up. Aligned creatures is written in that table in the exact same way Aligned Undead is in the table, with the difference being that they have a bigger alignment signal thingie.

Implying that either, alignment subtypes aren't required for it or undead basically never detect.


Not sure where Skylancer is getting the idea that Detect Alignment spells only key off subtypes. They key off the target's alignment as long as they're vabove 4 HD. Aligned Outsiders always ping as their subtypes though, and they along with Undead and Clerics ping harder and without the HD restriction.


http://www.d20pfsrd.com/alignment-description/additional-rules

Mortals with an evil alignment, however, are different from these beings. In fact, having an evil alignment alone does not make one a super-villain or even require one to be thwarted or killed. The extent of a character's evil alignment might be a lesser evil, like selfishness, greed, or extreme vanity. Having these qualities might not even cause the character to detect as evil when subjected to detect evil, as creatures possessing 4 or fewer Hit Dice do not register to the spell (with the exception of clerics or other characters that radiate an aura).


claudekennilol wrote:
Since the entire black blade progression is based off of the magus level I'd have to say it's however many magus levels you have. This isn't explicitly defined anywhere so it's probably about the best you're going to get.

That's how I'd rule it, as well. Since it is an intelligent magic item and not a creature, it lacks HD but has a caster level, so the only row on the detect evil chart that applies is the last one, for Aligned Magic Item. Given that there are numerous other class abilities that key off levels in that class, it's reasonable to follow that trend here.


Thanks, what's funny is that the magus will have a weaker aura than his weapon at some point.


Skylancer4 wrote:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/alignment-description/additional-rules

Mortals with an evil alignment, however, are different from these beings. In fact, having an evil alignment alone does not make one a super-villain or even require one to be thwarted or killed. The extent of a character's evil alignment might be a lesser evil, like selfishness, greed, or extreme vanity. Having these qualities might not even cause the character to detect as evil when subjected to detect evil, as creatures possessing 4 or fewer Hit Dice do not register to the spell (with the exception of clerics or other characters that radiate an aura).

Thank you for quoting exactly what I said.


Milo v3 wrote:
Skylancer4 wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
Skylancer4 wrote:

Not sure if it matters, but when you see a table that says "aligned creature" it doesn't mean a creatures alignment. It means there is a subtype [Good] or [Evil] or [Lawful] or etc.

Detect Good/Evil/etc don't trigger off a "normal" alignment of a creature. There is even a note in the spell Detect Evil indicating a creature will trigger the detection if it has evil intent due to this, because it normally doesn't trigger the spell.

Basically, unless that Magus/Black Blade is in the process of doing a vile deed, the spell won't trigger even if they are Chaotic Evil.

Based on that undead would never detect as evil.
Have you read the spell any time recently? Outsiders and undead both have their own section in the table so they would get detected as per the spell write up. Like it says in the table.

Thats why I brought it up. Aligned creatures is written in that table in the exact same way Aligned Undead is in the table, with the difference being that they have a bigger alignment signal thingie.

Implying that either, alignment subtypes aren't required for it or undead basically never detect.

In Pathfinder (aka Galorian?) Undead are inherently evil. A discussion that came up numerous times and ended up leading to the reworking of the Juju Oracle mystery.


Rynjin wrote:
Skylancer4 wrote:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/alignment-description/additional-rules

Mortals with an evil alignment, however, are different from these beings. In fact, having an evil alignment alone does not make one a super-villain or even require one to be thwarted or killed. The extent of a character's evil alignment might be a lesser evil, like selfishness, greed, or extreme vanity. Having these qualities might not even cause the character to detect as evil when subjected to detect evil, as creatures possessing 4 or fewer Hit Dice do not register to the spell (with the exception of clerics or other characters that radiate an aura).

Thank you for quoting exactly what I said.

They way it reads to me is, creatures less than 4HD don't even trigger the spell and if they are of "lesser evil" and of evil alignment they may not trigger it either, with the exception of clerics or characters who radiate auras.

A paladin who is lawful good, isn't "aligned" and able to deal damage through DR with their weapons unless smiting, normally. Every game mechanic which mentions "aligned" that I can think of off the tip of my head (which is quite a few, spells, DR, magic weapons, etc) treats the creature or item as if it were Aligned, meaning it is of Good or Evil or Lawful, acting as if it had that Subtype to bypass defenses. Having an alignment and being Aligned, are not synonymous.


Creatures lower than 4 HD never trigger.

Creatures higher than 4 HD do. To a lesser extent than Undead, Outsiders, and Clerics.

It's right in the text of the spell.

Grand Lodge

@Skylancer4: Please check your responses for consistency.

Quote:
Not sure if it matters, but when you see a table that says "aligned creature" it doesn't mean a creatures alignment. It means there is a subtype [Good] or [Evil] or [Lawful] or etc.

Note that Undead would not fall into your definition of Aligned Creatures, or Aligned Undead, as the do not have an alignment sub-type, just an alignment.

In the case of Detect <alignment>, aligned creature means a creature with that alignment.

For most creatures, however, their core alignment won't ping until they reach a certain level of <alignment>, represented by the spell's restriction to 5 HD or higher, unless the creature is either Undead or has an aura.

Also note that it is possible for a creature with an aura to detect as an alignment that they, personally, don't have.
For example: A cleric of a CE deity can be CN themselves, but, because of the Cleric rules on the aura, will still detect, even at first level, as evil.

As a further piece of confusion, a Paladin of an LN deity would detect as Lawful right out of the box, but not as Good until they reach 5th level.


Quote:
Aura of Good (Ex): The power of a paladin's aura of good (see the detect good spell) is equal to her paladin level.

Grand Lodge

Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
Quote:
Aura of Good (Ex): The power of a paladin's aura of good (see the detect good spell) is equal to her paladin level.

Huh. Usually, like for the Cleric, the aura is the deity's alignment(s), rather than the Cleric's.

Ah, well, at least you can't be a Paladin of Asmodeus...


A black blade, counts in the magus wealth/lvl?

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