[PFS] Menhir Savants and their Spirit Sense.


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

Spirit Sense:
Spirit Sense (Sp): At 1st level, a menhir savant can detect the presence of undead; fey; outsiders; and astral, ethereal, or incorporeal creatures. This ability functions like detect undead, and the druid detects all of these creatures rather than trying to detect one kind. This ability replaces nature sense and wild empathy. enphasis mine.

Detect Undead

During PFS play I have run unto folk who run this ability drastically different.

Some have it function as the spell detect undead but instead of just undead it is all of the types listed in the spirit sense ability.

Others say that the ability is constantly on and simply gives a Yes or No regarding the presense of the listed types and does not give locations nor aura strengths. This is the supported by posts by the writer of the ability here and here.

There have been no FAQs or Erratas concerning this ability and am having a hard time believing this should function in any other way than how Detect Undead works. While I can understand someone wanting to use this ablility to function 'the way it was intended' in their home games this is in regards to PFS. Is there something I am misunderstanding? Why reference Detect Undead when it functions nothing like it? When someone writes an ability and Paizo publishes it doesn't Paizo get the final say on how it functions?

Thanks in advance for any help/advice that comes my way.


PFS has no special rules in regards to this power.

This is a general rules issue, not a PFS specific issue, you're looking for resolution from the wrong place.

Spoiler:
Yes I know you're playing PFS, but Mike/John don't rule on how general rules work, that's the job of the Paizo Rules Team, and the way to get the answer from them is to post in the rules forum, not here.


It's functions just like detect undead, except that when ever you see undead in the description of the spell you change it to "undead; fey; outsiders; and astral, ethereal, or incorporeal creatures".

What Jason seems to be saying is that when you use the ability and detect say, three auras, you don't get to know that it's an two undead aura, and outsider aura you juts get three aura that can be any creature from that list.

You still get to know each aura's strength, and location, and such as the spell states, you just don't get to know if that powerful aura you can't see is an outsider or an undead.

Spoiler:
You can detect the aura that surrounds undead; fey; outsiders; and astral, ethereal, or incorporeal creatures. The amount of information revealed depends on how long you study a particular area.

1st Round: Presence or absence of undead; fey; outsiders; and astral, ethereal, or incorporeal creatures auras.

2nd Round: Number of undead; fey; outsiders; and astral, ethereal, or incorporeal creatures auras in the area and the strength of the strongest undead; fey; outsiders; and astral, ethereal, or incorporeal creatures aura present. If you are of good alignment, and the strongest undead; fey; outsiders; and astral, ethereal, or incorporeal creatures aura's strength is overwhelming (see below), and the creature has HD of at least twice your character level, you are stunned for 1 round and the spell ends.

3rd Round: The strength and location of each undead; fey; outsiders; and astral, ethereal, or incorporeal creatures aura. If an aura is outside your line of sight, then you discern its direction but not its exact location.

Aura Strength: The strength of an undead; fey; outsiders; and astral, ethereal, or incorporeal creatures aura is determined by the HD of the undead; fey; outsiders; and astral, ethereal, or incorporeal creatures, as given on the table below.

Lingering Aura: An undead; fey; outsiders; and astral, ethereal, or incorporeal creatures aura lingers after its original source is destroyed. If detect undead; fey; outsiders; and astral, ethereal, or incorporeal creatures is cast and directed at such a location, the spell indicates an aura strength of dim (even weaker than a faint aura). How long the aura lingers at this dim level depends on its original power, as given on the table below.

Grand Lodge

Jeffrey Fox wrote:
It's functions just like detect undead...

I agree with you. The second interpretation makes it virtually useless especially if there is an Aasimar or a summoner in your party.

In regards to PFS play, even if the second interpretation was how it was intended, it must be ruled by the first intepretation because RAW supports it. Is this correct?


If it was meant to be constantly active, it would have said so in the ability's description.

It's a spell-like ability, and that means, while the character doesn't need any component, he/she will still have to concentrate in order to sense "spiritual auras" (and provokes AoOs by doing so).

Sovereign Court

Nickel Funf wrote:
Others say that the ability is constantly on and simply gives a Yes or No regarding the presense of the listed types and does not give locations nor aura strengths. This is the supported by posts by the writer of the ability here and here.

Hmm, I don't see anything in the author's posts that say that the ability does not give aura strengths. Nor does the other suggest the ability is always on. The author's input seems to be consistent with the text of the rule, not the second interpretation you have presented.

I'm not sure what the conflict is there.

Also, it's a cone shaped emanation, so if the GM is ruling that it's picking up your companions regardless of position they are also incorrect there.


Concentration

The spell lasts as long as you concentrate on it. Concentrating to maintain a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Anything that could break your concentration when casting a spell can also break your concentration while you're maintaining one, causing the spell to end. See concentration.

Grand Lodge

Thanks all. I will direct people to this thread in the future if it comes up.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Concentrating to maintain a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

If that's in response to me stating it provokes, what I meant was the act of activating the SLA. Like spells, spell-like abilities provoke. Of course, concentration on the effect during later rounds does not provoke.

Also, by concentrate, I didn't mean "concentrate on an active spell effect", but rather the amount of activity the character actually has to perform. There are no somatic, verbal, material, or focus components the character has to provide, but he still has to conciously activate the ability (like a short meditative trance or something like that).
Sorry if my choice of words caused some misunderstanding there.

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