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OK now I have some questions that lead into a bigger question, I invite you all to poke every hole in this ship to see if even a piece of it still floats, PLEASE for the love of god shut this down
So we start off with a human (Eye for talent) shaman with the mammoth spirit... and grab improved familiar for an imp....
then we dip diabolist....
here's where i'm seeing the questions
A.)
IF: the diabolist's imp is an unmodified creature designated as an imp, is not a familiar, but also does not count as an animal companion
AND: Familiars must be unmodified creatures
Then: Your imp may be both a companion and a familiar
Ok so here's the Next part
IF: Improved familiars are barred from archetypes by loss of the speak with animals ability
AND: The animal patron for witch allows speak with animals
Then: Improved familiars can take various archetypes.
Ok so:
IF: Diabolist's imp companion stacks with arcane caster level.
AND: You take the light bringer trait
Then: You gain a full progression imp companion
Now finally: IF a familiar from eldrich scion fighter gains combat feats that the fighter possesses
AND: you have bonded your familiar to an imp companion
THEN: Your familiar is now in possession of all of your combat feats, plus the imp companions natural feat progression.
Lastly, if you continue in mammoth shaman, or animal shaman, that little imp becomes an animal of some sort (Mammoth for mammoth, any for animal shaman.. possibly an Ape?),
So your familiar will be a 20th level familiar, a 20th level animal companion, and a 20th level imp companion... with all of your combat feats. It will be a medium sized animal with various spell like abilities, a fly speed, HANDS,+6 to strength at its base stat (Shaman+mauler+Eye for talent). If you decide to take a dip into hunter you may apply animal focus to your companion to grant it an additional stat increase, such as more str....
It will have the ability to change shape into various types of animals...
It can Deliver touch spells, share spells, and has all abilities granted to it by all three class features, including archetypes chosen.
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A creature can't be both a familiar and an animal companion.
A creature can't be both a familiar and an animal companion.
Except that the imp companion is not an animal companion, and the shaman's animal spirit makes your familiar take the form of an animal companion.
So is this the progression?
level 1: Human Mammoth Shaman
Level 2: Fighter (Eldrich Guardian)
Levels 3-5: Shaman
Level 6: Diabolist
Level 7: Animal Patron Witch
Level 8-20 Shaman
At Level 7 you take the feat Improved Familiar as you get your level of witch, so that the Imp gains Speak with animals of its kind, which it promptly gives up in order to gain the Mauler Archetype.
You won't get your spirit manifestation or your true wandering spirit. You will have all 9 levels of spells as a Shaman - but you will be short 2 9th level spells and 1 8th level spell compared to a straight shaman.
however you will have a medium sized, full BAB, (20)d10 Hit die, bonded Imp companion/familiar that can deliver spells, hexes, and use any and all combat feats you take in addition to all feats it takes at odd hit die
Or do you take 3 more levels of diabolist after the witch, so that you get the 4th level imp advancement that comes with sticking with diabolist, before going back to shaman... you lose no spells, you actually only lose a single hex compared to the first path....
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Important things to note:
"Although a shaman's spirit animal uses the statistics of a specific animal, it is treated as an outsider with the native subtype for the purposes of spells and abilities that affect it."
and
"Levels of different classes that are entitled to familiars stack with shaman levels for the purpose of determining any spirit animal abilities that depend on the shaman's level. If a shaman possesses such levels in other classes, her spirit animal always uses the shaman rules for spirit animals, not those used by familiars of other classes (such as witches, wizards, or sorcerers with the arcane bloodline)."
The diabolist's imp, while similar to a Druid's Animal Companion, is not an animal companion NOR a familiar.
I don't understand where you're getting your contention that a Shaman's spirit animal is in any way an animal companion rather than a familiar.
So is this the progression?
level 1: Human Mammoth Shaman
Level 2: Fighter (Eldrich Guardian)
Levels 3-5: Shaman
Level 6: Diabolist
Level 7: Animal Patron Witch
Level 8-20 ShamanAt Level 7 you take the feat Improved Familiar as you get your level of witch, so that the Imp gains Speak with animals of its kind, which it promptly gives up in order to gain the Mauler Archetype.
You won't get your spirit manifestation or your true wandering spirit. You will have all 9 levels of spells as a Shaman - but you will be short 2 9th level spells and 1 8th level spell compared to a straight shaman.
however you will have a medium sized, full BAB, (20)d10 Hit die, bonded Imp companion/familiar that can deliver spells, hexes, and use any and all combat feats you take in addition to all feats it takes at odd hit die
Or do you take 3 more levels of diabolist after the witch, so that you get the 4th level imp advancement that comes with sticking with diabolist, before going back to shaman... you lose no spells, you actually only lose a single hex compared to the first path....
Well AFAIK the imp companion will stack with your caster levels in classes that don't grant animal companions.. so it'd gain it's full imp progression...
Though i'm not sure if the lightbringer trait would work here, or if the recent revision makes its caster level even count, i know it doesn't work for prerequisites but i'm not sure about effects
Important things to note:
"Although a shaman's spirit animal uses the statistics of a specific animal, it is treated as an outsider with the native subtype for the purposes of spells and abilities that affect it."
and
"Levels of different classes that are entitled to familiars stack with shaman levels for the purpose of determining any spirit animal abilities that depend on the shaman's level. If a shaman possesses such levels in other classes, her spirit animal always uses the shaman rules for spirit animals, not those used by familiars of other classes (such as witches, wizards, or sorcerers with the arcane bloodline)."
The diabolist's imp, while similar to a Druid's Animal Companion, is not an animal companion NOR a familiar.
True Spirit Ability
A shaman who chooses the nature spirit as her spirit or wandering spirit gains the following ability upon having access to the true version of that spirit.
Companion Animal (Su): The shaman's spirit animal takes the form of an animal companion of her choice, using her shaman level as her effective druid level. The animal retains all the special abilities and the Intelligence score of the spirit animal, but also has the statistics and abilities of an animal companion. If the animal is dismissed, is lost, or dies, it can be replaced in the same way as a normal spirit animal.
The ammmoth shaman ability doesn't work, the animal shaman takes the form of an animal companion.
I know, which is why I'm wondering if the mammoth shaman's ability to have his familiar take the form of an animal companion will reverse his imp companions levels, will stack directly with them, or will override them.and with improved familiar the shaman can, afaik, actually make his imp companion into a familiar as the rules do not prohibit the imp companion from becoming a familiar, to the contrary flavor text supports the concept.
Imp ConsularOne in every thousand imps possesses the ability to communicate telepathically with creatures within 50 feet and the power to change its form into that of any Small or Tiny animal, as per the spell beast shape II. These imp consulars are highly prized by powerful devils, who send them to serve their favored minions or to corrupt mortals with great destinies. An imp consular can be summoned via the Improved Familiar feat by a spellcaster of 8th level or higher. Diabolists tell of other breeds of imps with similarly specialized abilities, but if such creatures truly exist they are an especially rare lot.
Interesting (dotted)
So as an Imp companion and witch familiar the creature gains
Familiar:
Strength increase from size
Strength increase from Eye for talent
Strength increase in place of int increase for Mauler
Strength increase from Mammoth mystery
DR/5 Magic from Mauler
Natural Armor increase from Animal Mystery
Combat feats from player through eldrich scion
------
Imp Companion:
Bonus spelllikes
8 Bonus feats
Str/con bonuses
Natural Armor bonus
d10 hit dice
------
Animal true spirit ability (Assuming boon companion)
8 bonus feats
Loses base animal spirit physical stats in exchange for an animal companion's stats
Does this take away the bonuses from the mauler archetype? or from the imp companion's progression? Or just from the base stats and 4th level advancement?
----
Level progression
2 eldrich guardian/mutation warrior (Most reward)
1 witch,
1 diabolist
16 shaman, animal spirit, wandering mammoth spirit.
I'm not even sure what's being asked here. Can someone link or quote the relevant abilities in question?
He is trying to do this--> "20th level familiar, a 20th level animal companion, and a 20th level imp companion"
However since animal companions can not be familiars it already fails. As soon as it achieves one designation then it can not have the other.
He is trying to do this--> "20th level familiar, a 20th level animal companion, and a 20th level imp companion"
However since animal companions can not be familiars it already fails. As soon as it achieves one designation then it can not have the other.
What about the true spirit of a Shaman of the nature spirit? Is that not an animal companion and a familiar?
And why does imp companion bar familiar? Show me rules on that or explain in depth.
I'm not trying to argue with y'all i just need understanding. I want this comprehensively shut down in all angles
Thank you, that's what I was looking for
He is trying to do this--> "20th level familiar, a 20th level animal companion, and a 20th level imp companion"
However since animal companions can not be familiars it already fails. As soon as it achieves one designation then it can not have the other.
What about the true spirit of a Shaman of the nature spirit? Is that not an animal companion and a familiar?
And why does imp companion bar familiar? Show me rules on that or explain in depth.
I'm not trying to argue with y'all i just need understanding. I want this comprehensively shut down in all angles
No, it is not, and there is nothign to say that it counts as both.
Also from diabolist : "This does not stack with class levels that grant an animal companion."
So one level of diabolist would give you a 1st level imp companion that does not count as an animal companion or familiar.