Sothas |
Scenario:
Chaotic Neutral Half-elf half-celestial. Creature type should read:
Outsider (Augmented humanoid, chaotic, native)
or
Outsider (Augmented humanoid, chaotic, elf, human, native)
If the last is true, then would a elf bane weapon or favored enemy elf work against this? I'm torn on this. On one hand, these abilities tend to be vs. subtype. However, the ability is worded Humanoid (Elf). Since it isn't a humanoid, this would make it not work.
I literally have no idea which to side with. Thoughts?
Rynjin |
It changes the Type, meaning it is no longer Humanoid of any persuasion.
Neither of your Type entires are correct. It should simply read "outsider (Native)".
Its Alignment does not give it an Aligned Subtype, as these are separate things. It also not Humanoid in any sense, Augmented or other. For an example see: Half-Celestial Unicorn, which does not have Animal as a subtype.
Chemlak |
Note: half-celestials do not gain alignment subtypes.
Should be Outsider (elf, human, native).
Augmented humanoid subtype would depend on whether the template was acquired or inherited. If inherited, it's not an augmented humanoid.
LazarX |
Scenario:
Chaotic Neutral Half-elf half-celestial. Creature type should read:
Outsider (Augmented humanoid, chaotic, native)
or
Outsider (Augmented humanoid, chaotic, elf, human, native)If the last is true, then would a elf bane weapon or favored enemy elf work against this? I'm torn on this. On one hand, these abilities tend to be vs. subtype. However, the ability is worded Humanoid (Elf). Since it isn't a humanoid, this would make it not work.
I literally have no idea which to side with. Thoughts?
As long as the bane matches any of the types or subtypes, it works.For this character, chaotic outsider, human, and elf banes will all work.
Claxon |
From the bestiary
Creating a Half-Celestial
“Half-celestial” is an inherited or acquired template that can be added to any living, corporeal creature with an Intelligence score of 4 or more. A half-celestial creature retains the base creature's statistics and special abilities except as noted here.
CR: HD 5 or less, as base creature + 1; HD 6–10, as base creature + 2; HD 11 or more, as base creature + 3.
Alignment: Any good.
Type: The creature's type changes to outsider (native). Do not recalculate HD, BAB, or saves.
A half-celestial has only the outsider(native) type. He would have no other subtypes. Not human, not elf. Not chaotic or other alignment subtype.
Rynjin |
Note: half-celestials do not gain alignment subtypes.
Should be Outsider (elf, human, native).
Augmented humanoid subtype would depend on whether the template was acquired or inherited. If inherited, it's not an augmented humanoid.
The Half-Celestial temmplate does not (to my knowledge) grant the Augmented subtype. Compare/contrast Vampire which does, and all entries are listed as Undead (Augmented Humanoid/Fey/Whatever).
Chemlak |
The big problem is the inconsistency in applying the augmented subtype. According to the subtype itself, it should be applied whenever a template alters the creature's type, but there are a lot of creatures in the bestiaries that don't have it when they should.
It's always been my thought that subtypes aren't changed when type changes, but I don't have any rules support for it.
Drejk |
The big problem is the inconsistency in applying the augmented subtype. According to the subtype itself, it should be applied whenever a template alters the creature's type, but there are a lot of creatures in the bestiaries that don't have it when they should.
Remember that in Pathfinder specific rule trumps general rule. Thus a template-specific rule is what matters in this case.
For example vampire explicitly gets augmented subtype while zombie explicitly does not get it - zombie/skeleton are problematic a bit, however because they "retain all the subtypes except alignment and those that indicate kind" which actually means overwhelming majority of subtypes, leaving specific elemental subtypes, extraplanar, and aquatic a viable retained subtypes. Zombie/skeleton needs to be a corporeal being rendering incorporeal subtype impossible for them.
Half-celestial template explicitly states that its type is Outsider (native). No other subtypes.
It's always been my thought that subtypes aren't changed when type changes, but I don't have any rules support for it.
I'd say the otherwise. Subtypes are part of the original type, so if the type is changed and there is no rule saying they are retained there is no reason to keep them.
Rynjin |
By that reasoning then the human bane weapon should work because it retains the human subtype with augmented humanoid. If monstrous humanoid bane weapons would work on a monstrous humanoid vampire then human bane should too.
It doesn't retain the Human subtype, it retains the Humanoid type, with the Augmented subtype thrown in as well. Check a Vampire statblock when you get the chance.
dragonhunterq |
I think everyone has answered this, but a bit of official back up never hurtsIt does seem to infer that if the template did retain the (subtype) that the bane/favoured enemy would work though, which surprises me as I was of the view that bane was effectively Humanoid(elf) bane.
Type: The creature's type changes to undead (augmented). Do not recalculate class Hit Dice, BAB, or saves.
And I'm never 100% sure, but doesn't text trump table? If so the table stat block for the Nosferatu is wrong.