PFS Flag Bearer Feat vs Animals / Skeletons / Summons


Rules Questions

Sovereign Court

So I play today as a Bard Flag Bearer feat with my Inspire courage at my local shop for PFS. The GM ruled that a animals/skeletons/summons cannot benefit from the flag as they don't understand the concept of flags and the Inspire Courage doesn't affect them. I understand that the A/S/S with Intelligence of 1 or 2 don't understand language. But would an A/S/S understand and receive the Flag Bearer Feat morale bonus. I argued with him that the sight would work but he over ruled me and I can't say no.

So he told me if one of the devs say that the A/S/S cannot or gains the effect of Flag Bearer. He would allow it if was told by them. So if any devs read this please read and comment.

Flagbearer (Combat)
Prerequisites: Cha 15.

Benefit: As long as you hold your clan, house, or party’s flag, members of that allegiance within 30 feet who can see the flag (including yourself ) gain a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, and saving throws against fear and charm effects. You must hold the flag in one hand in order to grant this bonus. If the standard is taken by the enemy or destroyed, this bonus becomes a penalty, affecting all creatures that the bonus previously affected for 1 hour (or until you reclaim the lost flag).

A flag is a colorful banner that bears the heraldry or symbol of a nation or organization. A character with the Flagbearer feat who bears a flag can grant additional combat bonuses to nearby allies. Carrying a flag in combat requires a free hand.

Please and Thank You.


He is absolutly right!
Undead animals and summons are not member of an allegiance. summons are ideas, animals are animals and undead are mindless constructs most of the time. If you had a sentient undead and were a follower of the whispering giant, it might be a follower yes, but still it won´t work as you are a Pathfinder!


Helikon wrote:

He is absolutly right!

Undead animals and summons are not member of an allegiance. summons are ideas, animals are animals and undead are mindless constructs most of the time. If you had a sentient undead and were a follower of the whispering giant, it might be a follower yes, but still it won´t work as you are a Pathfinder!

Thank you for your insight, would that include familiars as well?


Flagbearer doesn't work on skeletons. They're immune to morale effects.

Animals and Summons don't have any similar language and should be able to receive the full benefit from morale effects.

As for allegiance, from Summon Monster: "It attacks your opponents to the best of its ability. If you can communicate with the creature, you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions." Summons attack your opponents even if you can't give them any directions whatsoever. So clearly they recognize who they're allied with and who the enemy is. As for animals: "Attack (DC 20) The animal attacks apparent enemies. You may point to a particular creature that you wish the animal to attack, and it will comply if able. Normally, an animal will attack only humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, or other animals. Teaching an animal to attack all creatures (including such unnatural creatures as undead and aberrations) counts as two tricks." So again, apparently animals have some way to recognize who's your enemy and who's not.

Flagbearer should work on animals and summons but does not work on skeletons (or any other undead).


Bob Bob Bob wrote:

Flagbearer doesn't work on skeletons. They're immune to morale effects.

Animals and Summons don't have any similar language and should be able to receive the full benefit from morale effects.

As for allegiance, from Summon Monster: "It attacks your opponents to the best of its ability. If you can communicate with the creature, you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions." Summons attack your opponents even if you can't give them any directions whatsoever. So clearly they recognize who they're allied with and who the enemy is. As for animals: "Attack (DC 20) The animal attacks apparent enemies. You may point to a particular creature that you wish the animal to attack, and it will comply if able. Normally, an animal will attack only humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, or other animals. Teaching an animal to attack all creatures (including such unnatural creatures as undead and aberrations) counts as two tricks." So again, apparently animals have some way to recognize who's your enemy and who's not.

Flagbearer should work on animals and summons but does not work on skeletons (or any other undead).

Thank you for clarifying that. We have a summoner and he summons skeletons or eagles.


you hold your clan, house, or party’s flag, members of that allegiance. Emphasis. They do not belong to your clan, neither to your family and neither to your party. That is the crux. Animals can neither be inspired by the american flag, because it has no meaning from a morale point of view!

Scarab Sages

A party ally (a member of an allegiance is an ally) would gain the benefits of the Flagbearer feat. If the banner for your party, allies of your party (read: creatures that aid the party in combat) should gain the benefit of the feat.

As for bardic performance... well... it's iffy. Here's what Bardic Performance says:

"If a bardic performance has audible components, the targets must be able to hear the bard for the performance to have any effect, and many such performances are language dependent (as noted in the description)."

However, reading over the Bardic Performance entries, you'll notice that, while many are dependent on audible or visual components, not a single entry is listed as being Language-dependent (to which the Bardic Performance entry refers). This means that, RAW, anything not immune to Mind-Affecting abilities that isn't deaf can benefit from an audible Inspire Courage. If your DM decides that language is an issue (in which case he is wrong), then simply elect not to use a language when using inspire courage. Done and done. The only place where such a ruling gets annoying is if you are using Oration to perform, but even then, bardic performance, for the sake of Inspire Courage, doesn't care about skill ranks or anything, so you can do whatever you darn well please for Bardic Performance purposes, even dancing if your allies aren't blind.

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