Scent, finding invisible creatures


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

If a PC has scent, would it be allowed for them to just run around a room with a single move action, to determine when/where the invisible creature is next to them?

Seems against the spirit of scent, if not actual rules. With haste on, one can cover quite a lot of ground


Why would that be against the spirit of scent? That is what dogs do when they try to pinpoint a scents origin. And it is allowed by the rules.

Shadow Lodge

PRD wrote:
The creature detects another creature's presence but not its specific location. Noting the direction of the scent is a move action.

The PC with scent has to spend a move action to determine the direction of the invisible creature. This is completely separate from movement.


Seems OK to me. It's what the Scent ability does. I can blindfold my dog and he'll still find me in a crowded room just fine.

Even better, he doesn't have to "run around the room" - once he is within 30' (60' if downwind) he can use a single move action to figure out the right direction and then pretty much move right to the invisible guy. Of course, this uses actions. A move action to determine direction, at least one more move action to actually move to the enemy - no actions left for attacking.

Or he could run around with a single move action and hope he gets lucky and passes within 5' of the enemy before his move action ends, at which point he can end his movement early and still have one action left for a single attack.

Don't forget, pinpointing the invisible guy's location doesn't mean he can see the guy - he's still invisible and still gets a 50% miss chance for having total concealment, even after your PC scents/pinpoints his exact square.

Shadow Lodge

DM_Blake wrote:
Even better, he doesn't have to "run around the room" - once he is within 30' (60' if downwind) he can use a single move action to figure out the right direction and then pretty much move right to the invisible guy. Of course, this uses actions. A move action to determine direction, at least one more move action to actually move to the enemy - no actions left for attacking.

Woah there; "determine the direction" isn't even close to "knowing what square he's in".

Grand Lodge

Serum wrote:
DM_Blake wrote:
Even better, he doesn't have to "run around the room" - once he is within 30' (60' if downwind) he can use a single move action to figure out the right direction and then pretty much move right to the invisible guy. Of course, this uses actions. A move action to determine direction, at least one more move action to actually move to the enemy - no actions left for attacking.
Woah there; "determine the direction" isn't even close to "knowing what square he's in".

You're right, that's what getting within 5' of the target is for.


Serum wrote:
DM_Blake wrote:
Even better, he doesn't have to "run around the room" - once he is within 30' (60' if downwind) he can use a single move action to figure out the right direction and then pretty much move right to the invisible guy. Of course, this uses actions. A move action to determine direction, at least one more move action to actually move to the enemy - no actions left for attacking.
Woah there; "determine the direction" isn't even close to "knowing what square he's in".

I didn't say he would "know what square he's in" - not with the initial move action to determine direction.

He would use a move action to determine direction. Then he could simply move in that direction - once he is within 5' he will pinpoint the square and stop moving.

Shadow Lodge

Huh. For some reason I've always read that the creature would need to spend a move action on "scent" to find the direction, and if it was within 5', it would know the square.

Somehow, I glossed over the "if you move within" part.

Grand Lodge

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/headb and-of-the-wolf

A player can use this, sees someone going invisible and just run around the room until the invisible person is within 5ft? No "move action" required to determine direction.

I understand there is miss chances, but things like blindfight, seeking enchant, and other such negate that.

Shadow Lodge

Sure.


Dar_ wrote:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/headb and-of-the-wolf

A player can use this, sees someone going invisible and just run around the room until the invisible person is within 5ft? No "move action" required to determine direction.

I understand there is miss chances, but things like blindfight, seeking enchant, and other such negate that.

Yes. If he uses a move action to move to where he guesses the enemy might be, or just move around randomly, then he MIGHT figure out where the invisible guy is. Or he might be wrong and use his entire move action without ever being within 5' of the invisible guy, in which case his action was wasted.

If the area is small and the likelihood of luckily coming within 5' is high, this is a good idea. But if the area is large and running around randomly has a high chance of failing, then it might be better to use that move action to figure out the correct direction to the enemy.

Both ways could be valid.

Don't forget that activating the Headband of the Wolf is a standard action.


Situation can come up easier than that headband though. Half orcs can get full on Scent with a racial feat.


BBEGs just keep a couple dogs around. Or wolves, or other canines. Man's best friend is BBEGs' best friend too.

Invisible PC comes scouting around, dogs catch his scent from at least 30' away, they're trained to move in for the attack and use their move actions to determine direction and move to adjacent, then BBEG (who delayed) uses his actions to target that square.

Invisible PC has a bad day.

The point? You don't have to have Scent yourself, and it doesn't have to cost you a feat; you can get it for the low low price of 25gp.


Horses have scent, too.
And while those are more expensive than dogs, adventurers and travellers often have them available.

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