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Welcome thieves and devils alike!
I am the DM for a Council of Thieves game and am seeking advice from the veterans and other coconspirators concerning various topics on this thread in no particular order.
If you are a player in my game, and have discovered my internet identity, , or forever have surprises spoiled for yourself bearing the guilt of having to feign shock as my secret plots unfold before your ugly poker face. And besides, I will find you out...
First up,
I have decided that a secret chamber in the sewer used by a "mysterious theatric apocalypse cult" contains an empty sarcophagus that upon closing teleports the 'passenger' to the top of a bell tower spire that looms over an impressive church (a la Notre Dame). Anyhow, I haven't quite pieced everything together yet, this is part of Act I Scene V (Lying Low) side-questy stuff, and I'm thinking some kind of ritual involving a portal to the Plane of Shadow, some souped-up Shadowgarms, and cultists (and of course innocent people). A little cliche, I realize, but I want the experience to be self-contained as they build up for dealing with the Bastards of Erebus.
My question is, where in Westcrown can such an impressive structure stand, a church as old as it is gorgeous and huge, signifying at once the older time (Aroden) and the modern era (Asmodeus), such as would befit the dying metropolis' particular history and layout?
My initial thoughts are somewhere in Parego Regicona, followed by an escape from the island under the nose of the Hellknights with added difficulty of the PCs being relative outsiders to that community. Any advice concerning that too would be appreciated.
cheers!
You could use the Arodenama (look at part six of the AP for a map) or one of the temples to Aroden or Asmodeus in Rego Sacero.
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Alright, quick preliminary items.
Do you know who your PCs are, what their goals and motives are, and which campaign traits they intend to possess? My biggest successes came from directly customizing content to PC sensibilities. This is especially important in Council of Thieves and Hell's Rebels, as you want the PCs to see the redeeming aspects of Cheliax and feel invested in its preservation and reclamation.
How closely are you maintaining canon? Are there any departures from "standard" Golarion, or can I assume any printed source to be reliable for your campaign?
Do you have any planned alterations to the Path so far? If major foes are being written out, then setting them up is unnecessary. And if you're intending to partially sequel this Path with Hell's Rebels, then extending aspects of this Path into that one is possible. Note that we are handicapped by how little is known about HR.
Are there any parts of the Path, Cheliax, Westcrown, or other parts of the world you want to emphasize? I'm picking up some interest in Aroden, for example.
For the scenario in the first post, I've already a few ideas, but I'd like to discuss these points first to refine my ideas. I can't guarantee instant response, but I'll answer when I can. An exact date on your first session would be helpful for planning as well.
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I tailor my game to their campaign traits. All in all, they are supportive of Janiven and Ariel's overall vision. And they hold lots of sway with the rebel group.
I utilize Dreamscarred Press material, and one of the Bastards has been statted as a Warlord. That should be interesting. In short, 'fun' is more important than 'canon' in my game.
I have not formulated an overall plan for the entire AP, no. I pretty much plan to run everything so long as it continues to serve the PC interests. So, all foes are on the table currently.
I think it'd suffice to mention some news of Kintaro in passing, maybe a parallel sect with whom Ariel knows of or has indirect contact with. Something like that.
I'd like to take this opportunity (next session in about a month) to emphasize some part of Westcrown so as to bring the city more alive, yes. The initial idea above is not set in stone, though I am fond of the Hunchback tale and would love to evoke "mega-church-bell-tower-wow" and especially a battle set within such a context. What is set in stone is this: my PCs are following up that lead into that room that has no other doors save the sarcophagus. That's how I got the teleport idea because I see it as a ticket to explore anywhere in WC i want. So, your suggestions beginning there would be most useful.
cheers!
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Contributor
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Hm. Can I get more specifics? Without as much knowledge of the group, I can only give generic recommendations. Feel free to PM if you find that more comfortable.
Details on each character (alignment, race/class, links to groups/organizations,etc) would be very useful. For example, my very weird party:
Chitramaya Pallavan, CE vishkanya ninja with the Child of Infamy trait: A very young actress born into a family cult of Norgorber. Her father was taken by Hellknights in her youth, while her remaining family (mother, brother) run a small Vudrani eatery as cover. Her in-vitro transformation into a vishkanya via her mother's alchemy has left her mildly insane (5 WIS) and occasionally prone to hallucinations and hearing a voice she calls Father. In recent days, she has become an actress, following in the footsteps of a famous uncle, who died under mysterious circumstances...
Ergato Deadsummer, LN fetchling gunslinger with the Conspiracy Hunter trait: Born on the Shadow Plane, Ergato found himself on the Material Plane in the nightmarish brightness of Alkenstar. Prone to using disguises to take on many identities, he found his way to Westcrown and, after hearing rumors of a Council of Thieves, vowed that he would either bring it down... or become its master. He believes he is a devout follower of Zon-Kuthon, but any true Kuthite would consider him a dilettante at best and a heretic at worst.
Alexandria Jeggare, CN tiefling (rakshasa) bard with the Diabolist Raised trait: Born a Chelish noble, Alexandria and her mother were forced into exile when her blood began to show. After her mother was killed in a Riddleport alley, she was forced into a horrible lifestyle by the dark temple of Calistria. Now, hardened by life, she has returned to clean up Westcrown. And since she is more rakshasa than human, if this grants her a future of rule and luxury, all the better. I placed her as a DMPC to keep the party on-track, and she took the place of Janiven in the rebel group.
Valera Wintrish, LN tiefling (kyton) fighter with the Conspiracy Hunter trait: Luckier than Alexandria, Valera never realized her heritage, believing herself merely a human of one of the few remaining families to honor Aroden. All she knows of her strangeness is an affinity for pain, which led her to become an armiger in the Order of the Scourge. Her mentor disappeared recently in Westcrown, and Valera has come to find him and dispense justice in the process.
There have been others - this campaign had high turnover.
Are any of your PCs from other parts of Golarion? For example, having a Vudrani and a Kuthite affected how I developed foes. I changed Palaveen to a Kuthite priest. Also, given Ergato's drive to become a criminal, albeit a better class of such, I created a Council lieutenant to be his nemesis. Knowing more about your group could help here. Also, I cannot stress enough how great it is to get PCs involved in the city as citizens, not just adventurers. Ultimate Campaign is good here. Perhaps one of them wants to invest in Amaya's glassblower's shop, start a bar and hire Rizzardo, or join a wizards' guild and apprentice Tarvi.
While not specific to my group or yours, setting up later foes would be wise, as the Path is hit-or-miss in some ways here. Book 5's end boss is a great example of a villain with the hubris and desire for recognition to reveal himself to PCs early and let them get away. You have a lot of other opportunities as well. Maybe, on the way to the Bastards' hideout, the PCs spot a procession of robed women in the ruins... actually the Sisters of Eiseth from Book 3. The list goes on.
I recommend finding certain NPCs among the rebel "recruit list" and start considering ways for them to recur in Hell's Rebels. So if your PCs take a particular interest in, say, Ermolos, have him show up again in HR as a full-fledged competent revolutionary. Dropping references to another cell in Kintargo is another way. In later books, you could have an NPC from the Kintargo cell appear - perhaps Ailyn Ghontosavos, the Pathfinder agent from Book 2, is from Kintargo. And the NPC Guide product includes Shensen, one of James Jacobs' PCs; as she is both an opera singer and revolutionary, it would be child's play to add her here. This is especially good if you have a Child of Infamy PC. Bluehood is another option - see "Some friends and allies", below.
My thoughts immediately go to the Korradath. While it may not be a church, it absolutely has the grand architecture you're looking for. What's more, if you're using teleportation, you can drop more portals (sarcophagi or otherwise) into other parts of the ancient palace, letting them explore it piece by piece and driving them to find more portals - letting curiosity do some of the work. You could place certain parts of later adventures there - the Wave Door could link there, for example, and maybe the bearer of the Totemrix keeps his true lair in a secret chamber there. Near the end, with the city aflame, you could do something like the end of Disney's "Hunchback", with the PCs fighting a hated foe, even Ilnerik, on the battlements above the burning city. You could also repurpose Walcourt along the same lines.
If you wanted to get really wild, you could have it be a portal through space AND time - having them return to the heights of Arodenic Cheliax and perhaps setting up events back in their time.
Do you intend for Aroden to be important to the Path? It's the most relevant Path for this, and he is arguably extremely relevant, especially given the events that Book 3 looks back at.
As for foes, shadowgarms are a start. An attic whisperer would be appropriate, and a shae might make a good "boss".
It's minor and the books do little with it, but one of Westcrown's unique traits is the canal system and the city's terms. Play up the flavor of the city as Renaissance Italian and its flavor as a fantasy Venice. Also, note the Lar entry in Book 3's Bestiary and its resemblance to the lares and penates of Roman religion. I found that referring to the guards as "dottari" and describing the travel by boatman up and down the river added a more interesting aspect to Westcrown than "just another fantasy city". Also, remember that Westcrown isn't that big. Between foot travel, coaches-for-hire, and adeliers, the PCs should have no trouble getting anywhere.
It might be appropriate to add an encounter with the rundottari on the way to the Bastards' hideout, although if you have an especially battle-thirsty PC, this might not go well.
Another important aspect to Westcrown is the Shadow Curse. Again, I recommend playing up how much life is shaped by this - everyone rises very early, for example, since business must conclude by nightfall. This also adds something to Book 2, since it makes C. and her willingness to flout the curse more dramatic. And of course, the Bastards' seeming immunity to the dangers of night might seem more important. Also, seek opportunities to shadow-flavor the enemies. Shaes, shadow demons, kytons, gloomwings, shadow mastiffs en masse, and other Shadow Plane denizens make flavorful foes. Also note that as a result of the Path of Grace (see History of the Hellknights), Westcrown is home to one of the largest populations of allips on Golarion. Take that, Wisdom-dumping PCs.
The laws of Cheliax are another thing to consider drawing attention to. Empire of Devils, which I recommend when you have the funds, tells us that bribes are encouraged by the system, and even gives a table of examples, from "public lewdness" (up to 10 gp) to "blasphemy" (10,000 gp or more), as well as how to offer bribes, and to whom.
Regarding blasphemy, do note that worship of any gods other than Asmodeus is forbidden or heavily discouraged. So if your PCs need spellcasting services, the church of Asmodeus is probably their only source. Note that this monotheism also forbids worship of the Archdevils - relevant for some of their foes! Again, all this gives Cheliax a bit of flavor while allowing Arael to rail against corruption.
Finally, it might be flavorful to reference the saint-like Founders here and there.
I did everything I could to make each villain iconic and interesting. Also, note that the Fame system gives you a perfect opportunity, since the PCs get less Fame for killing their foes. This gives you a way to have villains reappear. Here's the rundown:
The Hellknights: Try to keep the Hellknights on screen at first. Armigers are great for this. Depending on party alignment makeup, a prestige-classed Hellknight can make a good boss fight. You could even have Hellknights from other orders appear. Have an Order of the Coil Hellknight appear, searching for the Aohl. Bring out an Order of the Scar hero-type who's searching for Sian, so the PCs can collect a bounty on her. As the Path progresses, you can also start doing a NotAllHellknights thing, showing that some, like Paralictor Chard, are more reasonable and might make potential allies in the days to come - setting up Book 6.
The Bastards: The Bastards are also rebels, in a way, although still villainous. Try to show how being tieflings in Cheliax led them down this path, and depending on your players, maybe let them redeem some into their own organization. In my campaign, the group took Palaveen alive to deliver to the dottari; however, on the way, he was assassinated by Sian. Speaking of...
Sian Daemodus: Setting her up is hard, and pulling off the reverse-runecurse even harder. Do keep the shadowdancer, though, as it ties her into the Path's themes. If you're feeling like foreshadowing (as I clearly always am), drop some love notes from her in Palaveen's things. Maybe it was real and the runecurse is her vengeance. Or maybe she was just stringing him along. Either way, it makes her more than just a random encounter - as a Council agent, she deserves a little more than that. Also, if a PC keeps the runecurse, note that the Path is treasure-heavy. A little public bone-deviling never hurts.
Thesing Umbero Ulvauno: I had him try to love-potion Calseinica, using a super-strong variant he got from the Mother of Flies. Other than that, he's developed well enough in the book. If your party has a Child of Infamy, though, he makes a great foil.
The Outcast King: I replaced him with a shae swordswoman bound by planar binding.
Mantrithor Thrax: This is another great guy to set up early, especially if your party has a wizard or sorcerer for him to lord over and act as foil to. I made him a devout priest of Asmodeus... but not a cleric. This allowed him to summon hell hounds on the SM2 list. It was some arena fight. I think they killed 28 hell hounds before he came out for his tantrum. And they still took him alive for the Fame.
The Sisters of Eiseth: I made them all devilspawn tieflings, with a mix of regular monks and zen archers. They are emulating erinyes, after all. I also made a "leader" with cleric levels. Like the Bastards above, this makes them victims of anti-tiefling racism as well.
Delvehaven: I put the aforementioned Coil Hellknight here. In addition, the haunts are a GREAT way to characterize Ilnerik, especially if your PCs have already met...
The Vampires: These guys are AMAZING! Remember the vampire Rules - this isn't Twilight. If a PC is flouting the curse, have one chase him home. Once he's inside, they can't enter without invitation, after all. The same applies to Ilnerik, in fact. And since the Sanctuary is essentially Arael's home, the vampires might be unable to enter. As for their characterization, while they are unrepentantly evil, I liked the idea of them acting as simpering lapdogs and yes-men to Ilnerik, as well as a chorus (I played up his bardic side). I also moved their coffins out of Delvehaven - Westcrown is big enough for them to mist back from just about anywhere.
The Mazeflesh Man: I set him up at a serial killer who vanished from prison years ago. I also gave him the feat to take grizzly bear form. VAMPIRE BEAR. That'll scare some players.
Father Jair: I replaced him with a PC's vanished father. Same basic deal.
Vahnwynne: I replaced her with a former PC who had since left the campaign. You could put a levelled-up Janiven in this place - perhaps she was hunting Ilnerik in an attempt to redeem herself, and failed.
Jerusen: I replaced him with a female tiefling brawler, an escapee from the tunnel rats in the Folly. This one also had a very special weapon - hot siccatite gauntlets. Do you know what siccatite is? One of the skymetals. It constantly emits searing heat. So if the vampires really want to get you, but can't enter your home... THEY BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN. And when you come out, you're theirs. They went after my disguise-happy PC this way - he not only survived, but drew the vampires away while the other occupants got away. (He has since fireproofed his new home.)
Avahzi Serafian: I consider her my greatest success. Remember what I said about the PCs as citizens? I had Avahzi show up publicly... as the city's new Archbanker of Abadar. As far as anyone but the Council knows, she's a priestess of Abadar, and has bribed convinced the city to allow her bank to exist and grow. The PCs had bank accounts and everything, although most were savvy enough to avoid her loans. With her elegant golden gown (glamered full plate) and divination rituals involving the (magically safe) drinking of molten gold, she made a real impression.
Most of the other villains have been repurposed to the point where they won't do you much good, since I lost most of my players to job schedules and such, and my one remaining player has switched sides. So Avahzi and the Siblings are now allies, of a sort... at least until the Contract becomes a thing. I've added a lot of other stuff, such as a cult of Belial, but that's more player-specific.
Calseinica Nymmis: I highly recommend making her a changeling of one of the Flies. And I already mentioned Thesing and love potions. Other than that, she makes a perfect future cohort as a potential sorcerer, and if you have a Child of Infamy, she's easy to set up early.
Bluehood: The Path mentions her only once, as a reference to Cheliax: Empire of Devils, and then gives up. There's other continuity errors like that here and there. If you use her, I'd figure out what you're doing. Maybe she coordinates the rebel cells between Westcrown and Kintargo.
Ailyn Ghontosavos: If you have a Pathfinder PC, tie her to him - former superior, fellow agent, etc. Alternatively, you could have Janiven return in her place, seeking to redeem herself for past failures.
The Visbaronetess: If your players are anything like mine, they'll milk her boon for all it's worth. Be aware.
Just a heads-up: the Path has tons of treasure. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, and the presence of Mammon may just be coincidence, but be aware nonetheless, especially if your party has a crafter. Again, Ultimate Campaign and downtime are perfect for the Path, and I highly recommend them.
The Morrowfall deserves its own mention. It's very powerful, and you should consider carefully before just letting them wield it, no strings attached. (In my campaign, cohort-Calseinica was the only one who could use it anyway.) Also, remember what it did to Bisby, and feel free to make sure the party remembers too.
So this has been my textbook of a post. I welcome questions. I really should do a campaign journal thread for others to use...