RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Ok, so after getting my subscription PDF of Giant Hunter's Handbook, I'm thinking of prepping the ultimate pair of characters for me and my buddy to use in GiantSlayer when it comes out. I'll spoiler all the specific stuff I want to use at the bottom of the post so that those of you who haven't gotten the book yet can see what I'm talking about.
I'm thinking a Groot-Rocket type pair of characters, one who is huge, hulking, and uses giant-sized weapons, and the other who is tiny, dodge-y, and uses sneak dice and such. Here are my thoughts:
Big Guy:
Stone Oracle 1 / Titan Fighter X
Human, max out Str and Con, dump Cha and Wis
Level 1: Titan Fighter 1 - Gain Giant Weapon Wielder and use a Large greatsword
Level 2: Oracle - Gain the Rock Throwing revelation. This is partially for theme and partially to give him a good ranged option to draw giants close
Levels 3-X: Titan Fighter, take all the feats to increase damage and accuracy with his big 'ol sword.
Little Guy:
Vivisectionist/Grenadier Alchemist 2 / Vexing Dodger Rogue X
Wayang (for Small size and no penalty to Strength), max out Dex and focus on Int and Cha
My plan for this build is to focus on coating a melee weapon with a splash weapon in concert with sneak attack by climbing the Big Guy and using the new Hide Behind Creatures ability for the Stealth skill. I could then move from the Big Guy to another giant-type creature with a Climb check, thanks to Limb-Climber. Adding the alchemical splash weapons to attacks will let me spoil the regeneration abilities of some giants as well.
Level 1: Vivisectionist/Grenadier Alchemist 1 - Add Int mod to splash weapon damage, focus mostly on using the splash weapons at range for this level, use sneak attack with melee weapons when flanking. These two levels of Alchemist will also give me a few uses of reduce person per day, adding to my AC and letting me use many of the Vexing Dodger abilities on creatures as small as Medium size. Also gives me a few uses of Mutagen for increasing Dex even more.
Level 2: Alchemist 2 - Coat a melee weapon with an alchemical splash weapon. Now I get to add sneak attack dice AND the alchemical weapon to the damage of the melee weapon.
Level 3-X: Vexing Dodger Rogue - Gain more sneak dice, and gain the ability to climb the Big Guy and use him to hide until he gets into melee with a giant. Then I jump across, getting Sneak dice. Once I get Underfoot Trickster at 6th character level, I can also make the creature blinded for a round or more as a Swift action, letting me get sneak with subsequent attacks the same round.
Large bodies that break your opponent’s line of sight can be just as useful as a dark shadow for hiding your position. Special: Normally the soft cover provided by other creatures is not sufficient to allow you to attempt a Stealth check. Soft cover provided by creatures at least one size category larger than you does allow you to attempt Stealth checks against other creatures not already aware of your presence at a –10 penalty. If the creature providing the cover knows which square you occupy and is trying to
avoid concealing you, this penalty increases to –20.
You can also hide from a creature by staying under its own body if it is at least two size categories larger than you and you are in its space. Such attempts also take a –10 penalty, which increases to a –20 penalty if the creature is aware you are in the area. If the creature moves away from you, you are automatically revealed, unless you have
readied an action to move with it.
Limb-Climber (Ex): When adjacent to or in the space of a corporeal creature at least one size category larger than herself, a vexing dodger can climb that creature’s body with a successful Climb check against a DC equal to the target creature’s CMD. Although the vexing dodger is holding on to the creature, this action isn’t a grapple; it doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity from the creature, and neither the vexing dodger nor the creature she climbs gains the grappled condition. While the vexing dodger is on the climbed creature, the creature takes a penalty on attack rolls against the vexing dodger equal to the number of sneak attack dice the dodger possesses. This ability replaces trapfinding.
Underfoot Trickster (Ex): At 4th level, a vexing dodger can move through the space of a creature two size categories larger than herself without needing to attempt an Acrobatics check. She would still need to succeed at Acrobatics checks to avoid attacks of opportunity provoked by leaving a threatened space; this ability covers only the ability to move. Additionally, whenever the vexing dodger hits a larger foe with a melee sneak attack, she can choose to forgo the sneak attack bonus damage and instead attempt make a dirty trick combat maneuver as a swift action. This ability replaces uncanny dodge.
Ok, so does anyone have any other suggestions on making this combination of fighters work? Teamwork feats are obvious choices, if I can afford to use the feat slots on the Little Guy.
A lot of people don' like them, but if you know you will always be with someone and can cooperate with someone... Wow some of the teamwork feats are just awesome.
I really have a hard time understanding why more groups won't use them. They end up being more powerful than most feats.
Just as an example almost everyone in my group was willing to take iron will for a +2 to will saves in a previous campaign where it was coming up all the time. I tried to explain how since they are almost always in a group the teamwork feat would give them a bigger bonus against all spells. But they wouldn't do it.
Another group complained about how you can't have a stealthy group since someone will roll bad. Just take stealth synergy and everyone uses the best roll of the group. My group is considering trying that next campaign.
Giving up a feat is a very large investment for some classes. Even when it isn't, most people have a solid idea of what build they want, and taking a detour for teamwork feats could cripple them (unless the build idea was "lots of teamwork feats", of course).
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Yeah I'm actually a big fan of teamwork feats, but I have trouble finding room for them in many builds. I could see many of them being useful to this pair, such as:
Underhanded Teamwork
Wall of Flesh
Escape Route and Swing About
Coordinated Maneuvers
The problem comes in with trying to fit them into the Little Guy's feat slots. He'll be much more feat-starved than the Big Guy.
Perhaps I should consider giving my Titan Fighter a few levels of Cavalier so that I can grant Teamwork feats to the Little Guy? Let's see... one level of Luring Cavalier will give my Tactician once per day, and then I'd have to probably use a few feats on Practiced Tactician
Giving up a feat is a very large investment for some classes. Even when it isn't, most people have a solid idea of what build they want, and taking a detour for teamwork feats could cripple them (unless the build idea was "lots of teamwork feats", of course).
I can sorta understand that with some builds. But much of the time the teamwork feat is just plain better than the feat they did take.
Friend of mine is taking weapon focus with the long spear and his eidolon is taking weapon focus with claw and with bite. That is 3 feats to get a constant +1 to attack.The are almost always managing to get flanking on an opponent for a +2 to hit. They get it because they work at it and they feel like they need the bonus to hit.
However, the teamwork feat 'outflank' gives a +4 to hit when flanking that is an improvement of 1 and only required 2 feats not 3.
In my carrion crown group mentioned above. All of the PC's except one ended up taking the feat iron will. Gives a +2 to will saves. The teamwork feat 'shake it off' and the formation fighting we almost always were in would have given almost everyone a +3 to all saves.
Those are the most obvious ones I've recently seen. But most builds would improve in actual play by taking 1-3 teamwork feats. Even if they did not have the theme feats they were going for, they would still be better.
On the other hand, there are some groups that don't operate as a team with each PC just doing their own thing and scattering all over the place. Yes, teamwork feats will be a waste if you aren't part of a team.
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Well if it is going to be Giant AP, as in a real one, where we are going to fight many giants...funny enough it's one of the rare time that I would recommend some kind of a enchanter build, yeah everybody knows the Kitsune Fey-bloodline Sorcerer combo. Giants are humanoids, so they are susceptible very early on to any mind affecting stuffs, making fights, downright easy vs high dc that they usually can't pass. Usually their high save is Fort.