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I have a few questions regarding the Fast Healer feat. This is assuming at 3rd level I dip Unbreakable Fighter and pick up Fast Healer. This is for a PFS character so looking for RAW.
1. Does the Spelleater's Blood of Life ability trigger Fast Healer? It's supernatural which I thought supernatural equals magic.
2. If I have infernal healing and blood of life going, do they both count as separate effects to trigger the fast healer feat? Such as if I get +3 healing from the feat, would I then have two fast healing 4 to effectively equal fast healing 8?
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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There's sort of a bigger issue here, that this is just a symptom of: if a magical effect (like the Spell Eater you're looking at, or infernal healing) gives you the Fast Healing ability, and then the Fast Healing ability restores HP, was that magical healing?
This is also relevant for things like stopping bleed damage. The whole overarching topic really needs a clarification/FAQ, and I wouldn't pin my hopes on this working.
Gaining the fast healing is clearly magical. Whether the healing from the fast healing power that you have gained is also magical is the question.
I don't believe it does, but the question has been debated multiple times.
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So no one can refute this per RAW or argue for it? Is that faq quality lol.
I have looked at other similar discussions and people mention that because fast healing is a "heal" effect, you can receive it from different sources unlike bleed, DR, ect. which specifically state in their descriptions that the highest of all your sources tump the others...
As for magical, it's clear that supernatural abilities are magical just unclear what "natural" healing is and if it's natural does that mean it would satisfy the healing through rest requirement since that's the only way "natural" healing occurs.
The answer is simple. You just have to ask yourself if the healing is taking place due to magic. As SU abilities are magic they trigger this, the same goes with spells. Healing from EX abilities however does not trigger this.
The ability in question is a SU ability that grants an EX ability that heals. How is that simple?
That is not how it works. Fast healing EX is not the same as Fast Healing SU. They do the same things but their sources are different. In no place does it say that Fast Healing (SU) grants Fast Healing (EX), it simply says that you get fast healing and that it is supernatural. To rephrase, it is not a supernatural ability granting an Ex ability, it is simply a supernatural one. There is no precedent or wording from any DEV or source that I can find to assume otherwise.
Regardless of this fact, fast healer states that it works when you regain hit points through magical healing. If healing is granted by magic, which in this case regardless of whether or not fast healing is magic, or fast healing is granted by magic, you get the benefit.
Think of it this way, if you walk into an antimagic field does your fast healing shut off. If the answer is yes, then that healing is granted by magic ( as it stops when there is none ).
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Fast healing EX is not the same as Fast Healing SU. They do the same things but their sources are different. In no place does it say that Fast Healing (SU) grants Fast Healing (EX), it simply says that you get fast healing and that it is supernatural. To rephrase, it is not a supernatural ability granting an Ex ability, it is simply a supernatural one.
You're not reading what people are saying. Nobody's saying that Fast Healing (Su) is granting Fast Healing (Ex), so your comments are invalid. You're refuting things that nobody's saying.
Read carefully:
Blood of Life (Su): A spelleater's blood empowers him to slowly recover from his wounds. At 2nd level, while bloodraging a spelleater gains fast healing 1 (Bestiary 300).
See how the (Su) ability is not itself Fast Healing? And then the Fast Healing that it grants you is an (Ex) ability.
So the only Fast Healing you ever have is (Ex). But the only time you have it is when a certain (Su) ability is also active.
That is the source of the confusion.
Fast healing EX is not the same as Fast Healing SU. They do the same things but their sources are different. In no place does it say that Fast Healing (SU) grants Fast Healing (EX), it simply says that you get fast healing and that it is supernatural. To rephrase, it is not a supernatural ability granting an Ex ability, it is simply a supernatural one.You're not reading what people are saying. Nobody's saying that Fast Healing (Su) is granting Fast Healing (Ex), so your comments are invalid. You're refuting things that nobody's saying.
Read carefully:
Blood of Life (Su): A spelleater's blood empowers him to slowly recover from his wounds. At 2nd level, while bloodraging a spelleater gains fast healing 1 (Bestiary 300).See how the (Su) ability is not itself Fast Healing? And then the Fast Healing that it grants you is an (Ex) ability.
So the only Fast Healing you ever have is (Ex). But the only time you have it is when a certain (Su) ability is also active.
That is the source of the confusion.
I apologise. I misread the context and made an incorrect assumption . My argument still stays similar. The source of the healing is still supernatural. If you have healing, and that healing stops in an antimagic field because the magic powering it is gone, then that healing is magical because magic is the reason for the healing. If you keep healing in an antimagic field, say because you had fast healing (ex) then that healing wouldn't be magic.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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The source of the healing is still supernatural. If you have healing, and that healing stops in an antimagic field because the magic powering it is gone, then that healing is magical because magic is the reason for the healing. If you keep healing in an antimagic field, say because you had fast healing (ex) then that healing wouldn't be magic.
Thing is, the situation is one where you would stop healing in an AMF (which you say means it's magical healing), yet at the same time your healing is coming from Fast Healing (Ex) (which you say means it's NOT magical healing).
So we have a magical source granting nonmagical healing, a situation that causes even your own explanation to produce a self-contradictory answer.
You say that healing which stops in an AMF is magical, while healing from Fast Healing (Ex) is nonmagical. But the bloodrager fits BOTH categories, so your description now labels the healing as simultaneously both magical AND nonmagical.
But it can't be both magical and nonmagical.
Therefore, since your method of checking produces an impossible answer, your method of checking must be wrong.
So what method do we use?
Dunno. That could use a FAQ; hence the thread.
The source of the healing is still supernatural. If you have healing, and that healing stops in an antimagic field because the magic powering it is gone, then that healing is magical because magic is the reason for the healing. If you keep healing in an antimagic field, say because you had fast healing (ex) then that healing wouldn't be magic.Thing is, the situation is one where you would stop healing in an AMF (which you say means it's magical healing), yet at the same time your healing is coming from Fast Healing (Ex) (which you say means it's NOT magical healing).
So we have a magical source granting nonmagical healing, a situation that causes even your own explanation to produce a self-contradictory answer.
You say that healing which stops in an AMF is magical, while healing from Fast Healing (Ex) is nonmagical. But the bloodrager fits BOTH categories, so your description now labels the healing as simultaneously both magical AND nonmagical.
But it can't be both magical and nonmagical.
Therefore, since your method of checking produces an impossible answer, your method of checking must be wrong.
I agree a FAQ would be good. I see where you are coming from but personally I don't see an issue here.
I don't see why it couldn't be both. It seems to me like whats going on here is that Magic is powering the pc's natural healing abilities. Sort of like a magic wolverine (hence why it says fast healing works LIKE natural healing, though it does not say that it is such).
Fast healer doesn't require that healing be magical and also not natural at the same time. It only requires that the healing be magical. This follows the same logical precedent introduced by, as an example, weapons that are slashing and piercing. These weapons qualify for feats or abilities that require a slashing or piercing weapon. Note that in this case the weapon is both, and qualifies for abilities that only require one half.
As I said earlier, regardless of the text above, by its very definition any healing that comes from magic is magical healing. In this case a "healing ability" is granted by magic. That may seem confusing but in the end any healing you get from that ability happens because of magic. So you end up with one of two scenarios, either the ability is either both (SU) and (EX), or it is just (SU). There isn't ever a case where the ability is only (EX) as it needs magic to function, and as is at the very least magical. As such it qualifies for the feat.
(hence why it says fast healing works LIKE natural healing, though it does not say that it is such)."Except where noted here, fast healing is
just like natural healing."Is just like, not works like. Also the only instances where it isn't just like natural healing is noted in the abilities description, which doesn't say anything that disqualifies Fast healer.
If it works with natural healing(rest) and nothing specifically states it does not work with fast healing then it works with fast healing.
Sorry my wording was off. That doesn't change the fact that while fast healing is just like natural healing, it isn't natural healing. That isn't to say that I don't think the fast healer feat shouldn't work in this case, it should. It just works for different reasons.
Fast healer is very specific about just working with resting though. For RAW the case is actually that something can only be done when specifically allowed. If the feat wording said "natural healing and things that are just like natural healing" then we wouldn't have an issue. The same would go if fast healing said it WAS "natural healing with the noted exceptions". In pathfinder rest is natural healing, but all natural healing isn't necessarily rest. As such fast healing (ex) doesn't qualify, even if it is natural healing (regardless of the flavor text in fast healer) .
That being said, it doesn't matter. As illustrated earlier, the healing you gain here is due to magic and is therefore at the very least magical, and thus triggers the feat.
If you really want this and can't convince your dm just take a level of Verminous Hunter, pick the pet that gives fast healing, and let your pet die / kill it and get fast healing (su). That ability contains none of the rules text present above that causes confusion.