Rum Punch Scenario and Alehouse Location


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber

Rum Punch says:

Quote:
When you acquire an ally, put it in the ally pile next to this scenario card

.

Alehouse says:

Quote:
When you acquire an ally, you may recharge it and draw a card

These seem to be conflicting, but as I read it, when you acquire an ally, you first put it in the ally pile but then you may recharge it into your own deck. Is this correct?


RULES: THE GOLDEN RULE wrote:
If a card and this rulebook are ever in conflict, the card should be considered correct. There is one exception to this: When the rulebook uses the word “never,” no card can overrule it. If cards conflict with one another, then Adventure Path cards overrule adventures, adventures overrule scenarios, scenarios overrule locations, locations overrule support cards, support cards overrule characters, and characters overrule other card types.

So in this case, the Rum Punch card overrules the Alehouse. You do not get the chance to recharge the ally to draw a card because it goes straight to the ally pile.

Edit: Recharging occurs from your hand to the bottom of your deck unless otherwise stated. You cannot recharge a card from the ally pile to the bottom of your deck.


Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber

Excellent; that makes sense. Thanks!


Reviving this thread because my question is about the second part - do you get to draw a card even if you can't recharge the ally due to the scenario rules?


You do not. There is a similar combination in organized play and Tanis weighed in on that in this thread, explaining that you do not get to draw a card.


Nope because since you can't recharge it, it becomes an impossible condition and by the golden rule you skip the rest of the sentence/paragraph.


I don't see where it says you ignore the rest of the sentence/paragraph. It says ignore anything that's impossible, but drawing a card is not impossible.

I also don't understand Tanis' ruling, I don't see any rule that you can't invoke an optional effect if you can't carry out every part of it.


I think there are a couple of things here.

1. "Recharge it and draw a card" are linked. If it said, "you may recharge it, then you may draw a card" maybe they wouldn't be so linked. But as written, you have to do one with the other. If the scenario rule wasn't there, you wouldn't read the location power as saying you don't have to recharge the card to draw a card.

2. "You may" means you get to decide whether you want to perform those two actions or not. If it didn't say "you may" then you'd have to perform those actions. That would make the "draw a card" just as mandatory as the "recharge it" part. So even though the scenario took away the card before you could recharge it, you'd still have been required to draw a card. But as is, by the priority part of the Golden Rule says that before you get to the Alehouse Power, you've already lost the card to the scenario power. That means you don't have a card to recharge any more, so you can't choose to activate the location power.


I can buy the interpretation, but I don't think the rules as written provide a clear answer. (i.e. your justifications are not actually in the rules as written).


Christopher McDonald wrote:
I can buy the interpretation, but I don't think the rules as written provide a clear answer. (i.e. your justifications are not actually in the rules as written).

I'd agree with you on that. The golden rule isn't so finally parsed as to say what chunk you can ignore. There is some ambiguity in the language, which is a fact of the English language, not just this game. Combined with the limited space on the cards, and this is sort of what you get.

It makes the game beautiful and flawed all at once, just like English and people.


Yep, there will always be some ambiguity, but there is definitely room for more precision. (e.g. compare to Magic:tG) The devs see to be learning and using terminology more precisely in this set than the last one. Hopefully they will continue to move in that direction.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Golden Rule wrote:
If a card instructs you to do something impossible, like draw a card from an empty deck, ignore that instruction.

So the "ignorable unit" identified in the Golden Rule is "an instruction." In game terms, that's hard to quantify, because an instruction might be part of a sentence, it might be a whole sentence, or it might even be an entire power that consists of multiple sentences. You really have to examine the context to answer the question. In this case, "recharge [the ally] and draw a card" is a single instruction, and since you can't do the first part, you don't do the second.

(I really wish Alehouse hadn't been used a location in that particular scenario....)

Adventure Card Game Designer

Vic Wertz wrote:
(I really wish Alehouse hadn't been used a location in that particular scenario....)

While you were out of town, we replaced the Alehouse with the Safe House immediately after the scenario came out for this very reason.

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