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Can an arcanist use the dimensional slide class feature to escape a grapple? Why or why not?
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As far as I can tell, it is a spacial warping, not teleportation so being prevented from moving would mean you couldn't use the ability. You could create the dimensional crack, but you couldn't step through it.
Dimensional Slide (Su): The arcanist can expend 1 point from her arcane reservoir to create a dimensional crack that she can step through to reach another location. This ability is used as part of a move action or withdraw action, allowing her to move up to 10 feet per arcanist level to any location she can see. This counts as 5 feet of movement. She can only use this ability once per round. She does not provoke attacks of opportunity when moving in this way, but any other movement she attempts as part of her move action provokes as normal.
No. Note that this is something an arcanist "can step through," and it "counts as 5 feet of movement." Note also that it's "used as part of a move action or withdraw action" and you can make other movement as part of that same move action. Since you can't use a move action to move, you can't use this.
+1 to SodiumTelluride. You cannot move while grappled, The Dimensional Slide counts as 5 feet of movement, part of the actions noted. Therefore, that simply won't slide.
I'm waiting for someone to come into the thread and declare that the "...create a dimensional crack that she can step through..." text is just flavor text and thus doesn't apply in this situation. :P
I'm waiting for someone to come into the thread and declare that the "...create a dimensional crack that she can step through..." text is just flavor text and thus doesn't apply in this situation. :P
That part is just flavor text.
The important part is, "This ability is used as part of a move action or withdraw action, allowing her to move up to 10 feet per arcanist level to any location she can see."
If you can't take a move or withdraw action, you can't use the ability.
I'm waiting for someone to come into the thread and declare that the "...create a dimensional crack that she can step through..." text is just flavor text and thus doesn't apply in this situation. :PThat part is just flavor text.
The important part is, "This ability is used as part of a move action or withdraw action, allowing her to move up to 10 feet per arcanist level to any location she can see."
If you can't take a move or withdraw action, you can't use the ability.
Except you are allowed to take a move action in a grapple. You could pull out a weapon, for example.
Except you are allowed to take a move action in a grapple. You could pull out a weapon, for example.I'm waiting for someone to come into the thread and declare that the "...create a dimensional crack that she can step through..." text is just flavor text and thus doesn't apply in this situation. :PThat part is just flavor text.
The important part is, "This ability is used as part of a move action or withdraw action, allowing her to move up to 10 feet per arcanist level to any location she can see."
If you can't take a move or withdraw action, you can't use the ability.
There is the "move action" which moves you up to your speed in distance, and then there are move equivalent actions, which use your move action for the round and do things which are not movement.
It is obvious that this is referring to the specific "move action" and not any move equivalent action.
It is obvious that this is referring to the specific "move action" and not any move equivalent action.
Perhaps.
There is the "move action" which moves you up to your speed in distance, and then there are move equivalent actions, which use your move action for the round and do things which are not movement.
To my knowledge, there is no term such as "move-equivalent action" anywhere in the rules (I didn't do an exhaustive search, but I did check under "Move Action" in the Core Rulebook's combat chapter). There are simply move actions made to move, and move actions made to do something else.
The grappled condition forbids movement. Thus, a grappled creature cannot use the withdraw action or "move up to 10 feet per arcanist level".
Although, now I have the same question about the Shift power of teleportation wizards. That movement is done as a swift action, and doesn't seem to need actual movement on the wizard's part.
But isn't it teleportation and not actual movement?
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Unless one of them is mentioned only in flavor text. :P
In this particular case, No, since the dimensional slide "counts as 5 feet of movement". You're better off going for Dimension Door, a standard action fourth level spell, if you want to move without movement.
Thinking with portals; Unable-to-move thing don't go in, Unable-to-move thing don't go out.
In this particular case, No, since the dimensional slide "counts as 5 feet of movement". You're better off going for Dimension Door, a standard action fourth level spell, if you want to move without movement.
Wouldn't dimension door require an obscene Concentration check though?
Thinking with portals; Unable-to-move thing don't go in, Unable-to-move thing don't go out.
That was my thought as well.
To my knowledge, there is no term such as "move-equivalent action" anywhere in the rules (I didn't do an exhaustive search, but I did check under "Move Action" in the Core Rulebook's combat chapter). There are simply move actions made to move, and move actions made to do something else.
Here's the refence.
Move Action: A move action allows you to move up to your speed or perform an action that takes a similar amount of time. See Table: Actions in Combat for other move actions.
You can take a move action in place of a standard action. If you move no actual distance in a round (commonly because you have swapped your move action for one or more equivalent actions), you can take one 5-foot step either before, during, or after the action.
You can't actually swap a move action for any other action, so they are referring to using a move action for something that is not "move".
For clarification, it would be nice if the move action: move was named differently from the general classification of "move actions."
There is a Move action: Move, which is what the ability refers to. There also other move actions such as; Move action: draw a weapon or Move action: close a door.
The reason you know the ability is referring to the Move Action: Move and not the class of move actions is because it also specifically refers to the Full-Round Action: Withdraw, not a class of actions of full-round. You can then infer that both move action and withdraw action refer to the specific actions and not the classifications of actions.
Shift (Su): At 1st level, you can teleport to a nearby space as a swift action as if using dimension door. This movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You must be able to see the space that you are moving into. You cannot take other creatures with you when you use this ability (except for familiars). You can move 5 feet for every two wizard levels you possess (minimum 5 feet). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.Why does this work in a grapple, but Dimensional Slide does not?
Just because Dimensional Slide "counts as 5 feet of movement" (i.e. you now have 5 less feet you can move this turn), does not mean you actually moved five feet to use it.
To be clear on my position: I am not necessarily advocating that Dimensional Slide gets you out of a grapple, but that both Dimensional Slide and Shift should work in the conditions, whatever those are.
Because this is its own movement. Dimensional Slide is part of other movement. Dimensional Slide's limits aren't just about "not during 5-foot step". It's also legitimately part of your actual movement.
This also explicitly calls out Dimension Door, meaning that its limits relate to those of that spell. Dimensional Slide doesn't.
It's also worth noticing that Slide comes with Dimension Door's limitation about actions after movement while Dimensional Slide does not.
Dimensional slide: As part of a move action or withdraw action, using 5 of that movement, you can traverse up to 10' per level. You obviously have to be moving (engaging in the move action[more] or withdraw) to use this. Being grappled prevents from for satisfying the conditions for using it. The other text of the ability, such as stepping through, further highlights this.
Shift: As a swift action you teleport up to 5 feet for every two levels. It does not require a move action or for you to be moving. Although obviously it does indeed change your position (i.e. it moves you, is movement from that sense of the word) it doesn't require you to move.
The shift ability moves a person through teleportation. Dimensional Slide doesn't directly move a person, it allows a person to traverse a distance extradimensionally while moving.
Shift (Su): At 1st level, you can teleport to a nearby space as a swift action as if using dimension door. This movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You must be able to see the space that you are moving into. You cannot take other creatures with you when you use this ability (except for familiars). You can move 5 feet for every two wizard levels you possess (minimum 5 feet). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.Why does this work in a grapple, but Dimensional Slide does not?
Just because Dimensional Slide "counts as 5 feet of movement" (i.e. you now have 5 less feet you can move this turn), does not mean you actually moved five feet to use it.
To be clear on my position: I am not necessarily advocating that Dimensional Slide gets you out of a grapple, but that both Dimensional Slide and Shift should work in the conditions, whatever those are.
Shift uses a swift action, which you can take during a grapple as long as it does not require both hands.
Dimensional slide requires a move action(or withdraw) to be taken. The grappled condition prevents movement. Even the grappler could not use dimensional slide without using their free action to release the grapple first.
+1 to SodiumTelluride. You cannot move while grappled, The Dimensional Slide counts as 5 feet of movement, part of the actions noted. Therefore, that simply won't slide.
Veeerrrryy funny.
An important part of Berinor's argument is that Shift is directly related to Dimension Door, carrying with it similar restrictions and mechanics. Dimension Door really does simply teleport you a distance as part of a spell effect; Shift's many references to movement are in regards to further restrictions or properties of this effect, such as range.
Dimensional Slide, on the other hand, is like a magically enhanced movement, as part of either a move action or withdraw. It is part of movement, that grappling disallows. Even the dimensional crack bit suggests the need to 'step through it'. (Though I'm pretty sure there's no problem flying or swimming through it as well.)
Boogie woogie woogie!
Berinor: being part of your move action doesn't make it a move. A move action is anything that takes about the same amount of time as sprinting your base speed.
Dave: Shift still moved a person. It says right in grapple that you cannot move. There are no exceptions (other than Shift somehow?)
Tarantula: You can very much use move actions during a grapple, such as drawing a weapon with a BAB of +0 (or using Dimensional Slide?).
Are these somehow the best arguments that exist out there for Shift/against Dimensional Slide?
While you can do things which use a move action, they are not themselves a Move Action: Move. Which is what dimensional slide is referring to in its requirement. You must either use a Move Action: Move or Full-Round Action: Withdraw to utilize the dimensional slide ability. You cannot take a dimensional slide as part of a Move Action: draw a weapon. It speaks to the specific Move Action: Move and not the general category of Move Actions.
I suddenly find myself in a grapple, near death, and wondering if dimensional slide will get me out.