I can't find in the official rules where its written that the caster level associated to an item can be decided arbitrarily, and that the CL written within the items description is just the minimum CL to craft the item without malus (eg.the +5 for unknown peer requisite).Anybody out there who could enlighten me about the rules behind item creation?
As far as I can tell, the post you cited is groundless, erroneous, and wrong.
The haversack would still be made at CL 9, because that's the minimum level necessary to obtain the magical effects defining a handy haversack.
So a level 4 sorcerer who want to craft that item and hence don't meet the spell requirement (which is a level 5 spell) will have a DC of 9+5+5 = 19?
And there is no way it can't lower it apart finding something or someone which has/casts the spell like a scroll or an enchanter in a city to avoid the 5 points malus?
Edit:
I'm a bit confused, checking the FAQ (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9n8m), I understand that the Pearl of Power (CL 17 as written in the item Stats) can be crafted with a lower caster level DC corresponding to the CL of the spell that will go into the pearl.
Hence if the sorcerer decides to ignore the "Secret Chest" spell requirement, adding a +5 malus to the DC, what hinders the crafter to use a lower CL?
No, a 14. Caster level is not a requirement, except in a few specific instances where it's called out as one. (E.g., "Creating a magic weapon has a special prerequisite: The creator's caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon.") So the missing prereq is simply the spell itself.
Out of game, this is a simple reading of the rules.
In game,... well, in order to make this item, you need that spell, and you don't have it. So what you're doing is you're duplicating that spell at the lab bench, perhaps by using more babau's ichor and less powdered garnet. But because babau's ichor is unstable, it needs better lab technique (e.g. Spellcraft) to handle it properly, and hence the Spellcraft check is more difficult. But it doesn't matter whether the reason you need to substitute is because you're not a good enough caster yet, because you never learned the spell, or because it's not even on your class list. In any of those cases, you're substituting Spellcraft for spell casting that you can't do.
As to the DC,... there aren't really any ways to reduce the DC, but there are many ways to increase your bonus on the roll, which amounts to the same thing. If you have a lab assistant, s/he can use the aid another action for a bonus to the skill roll (familiars are traditional for this), and similarly you may be able to use masterwork tools (perhaps a copy of Anaraxius' Anthology of Arcane Augmentation, or set of precision glassware to measure very precisely) for another bonus). You can also use other skills -- for example, forging a sword can be done using Craft (weaponsmith), while making a haversack would probably be Craft (leatherworker). This, in turn, opens up the possibility of using a spell like crafter's fortune for another bonus.
However, this shouldn't be necessary. A 4th level caster with a casting stat of 16 (which is low) should be able to put a few points into Spellcraft and take ten on the roll. The final result is 10 + 3 (casting stat bonus) + 4 (skill points) + 3 (class skill bonus) = 20. The craft DCs are deliberately designed to be very easy in order to make magic item crafting accessible to adventurers.
I'm a bit confused, checking the FAQ (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9n8m), I understand that the Pearl of Power (CL 17 as written in the item Stats) can be crafted with a lower caster level DC corresponding to the CL of the spell that will go into the pearl.Hence if the sorcerer decides to ignore the "Secret Chest" spell requirement, adding a +5 malus to the DC, what hinders the crafter to use a lower CL?
Pearl of power is a special item, because it's actually lots of different items at different power levels. Basically, you need enough caster level to power the effect you're going for. It "obviously" takes less power to recover a first level spell than a ninth, and this specific FAQ reflects that.
However, if you're crafting a ring of invisibility, it needs to be able to turn you invisible, which in turn requires a 2nd level spell, which in turn means that the item needs CL 3 to produce that level of effect, irrespective of your actual caster level. Below CL 3 we wouldn't be looking at a ring of invisibility, but something else, perhaps a ring of vanish, which is a 1st level spell.
Since the secret chest spell is the spell that makes an extra-dimensional space, extra-dimensional spaces become generally available at 4th level, hence CL 9.
As to the DC,... there aren't really any ways to reduce the DC, but there are many ways to increase your bonus on the roll, which amounts to the same thing. If you have a lab assistant, s/he can use the aid another action for a bonus to the skill roll (familiars are traditional for this)
How can a familiar use "Aid Another" for a Spellcraft check without having it as ability?
How can a familiar use "Aid Another" for a Spellcraft check without having it as ability?
As to the DC,... there aren't really any ways to reduce the DC, but there are many ways to increase your bonus on the roll, which amounts to the same thing. If you have a lab assistant, s/he can use the aid another action for a bonus to the skill roll (familiars are traditional for this)
Familiars have your skill ranks. ("For each skill in which either the master or the familiar has ranks, use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that type or the master's skill ranks, whichever is better. In either case, the familiar uses its own ability modifiers.")
How can a familiar use "Aid Another" for a Spellcraft check without having it as ability?
As to the DC,... there aren't really any ways to reduce the DC, but there are many ways to increase your bonus on the roll, which amounts to the same thing. If you have a lab assistant, s/he can use the aid another action for a bonus to the skill roll (familiars are traditional for this)Familiars have your skill ranks. ("For each skill in which either the master or the familiar has ranks, use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that type or the master's skill ranks, whichever is better. In either case, the familiar uses its own ability modifiers.")
Awesome, so the skill points can be doubled.
Thank you very much for the answers.
Awesome, so the skill points can be doubled.
Not doubled. The familiar makes an aid-another attempt that, if successful, adds a +2 modifier to the primary skill attempt of the caster.
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No, a 14. Caster level is not a requirement, except in a few specific instances where it's called out as one. (E.g., "Creating a magic weapon has a special prerequisite: The creator's caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon.") So the missing prereq is simply the spell itself.
DC 19 was right :
5 base, +9 (CL of the item) + 5 for missing secret chest = +19On the other hand it is possible to take 10 when making a magic item0, so:
Class skill +3, maximized +1/level,
a sorcerer with Intelligence 10 can make a handy haversack at level 6
(take 10, +3 +6 = 19)
It he take 1 day to make a pair of spectacles taht give +2 to spellcraft (cost skill squared * 100, CL 3, spell required Detect magic, DC8 [partially based on cloak of elvenkind]) he can make a handy haversack at level 4.
Or a friend can help giving him a +2 to the spellcraft check.
It he take 1 day to make a pair of spectacles taht give +2 to spellcraft (cost skill squared * 100, CL 3, spell required Detect magic, DC8 [partially based on cloak of elvenkind]) he can make a handy haversack at level 4.Or a friend can help giving him a +2 to the spellcraft check.
However a friend in order to use Aid Another must have craft woundrous item?
In cases where the skill restricts who can achieve certain results, such as trying to open a lock using Disable Device, you can't aid another to grant a bonus to a task that your character couldn't achieve alone. The GM might impose further restrictions to aiding another on a case-by-case basis as well.
Interesting spectacles but I can't find them, and can't understand what the cloak of elvenkind matters since gives +5 on stealth checks.
Thanks in advance.
Edit: Diego sei italiano per caso? XD
It he take 1 day to make a pair of spectacles taht give +2 to spellcraft (cost skill squared * 100, CL 3, spell required Detect magic, DC8 [partially based on cloak of elvenkind]) he can make a handy haversack at level 4.[...]
Interesting spectacles but I can't find them, and can't understand what the cloak of elvenkind matters since gives +5 on stealth checks.
I think he referred to the general magic item creation rules, which state that an item granting a skill bonus of +N would cost 100gp x N². The cloak is there as an example of such an object granting a skill bonus; it helped to assume the added prerequisites and the item's CL and thus its crafting DC.
I think he referred to the general magic item creation rules, which state that an item granting a skill bonus of +N would cost 100gp x N². The cloak is there as an example of such an object granting a skill bonus; it helped to assume the added prerequisites and the item's CL and thus its crafting DC.
It he take 1 day to make a pair of spectacles taht give +2 to spellcraft (cost skill squared * 100, CL 3, spell required Detect magic, DC8 [partially based on cloak of elvenkind]) he can make a handy haversack at level 4.[...]
Interesting spectacles but I can't find them, and can't understand what the cloak of elvenkind matters since gives +5 on stealth checks.
Uh thank you very much for the clarification.
Found those infos also there http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCampaign/campaignSystems/magicIt emCreation.htmland there http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magicItems/magicItemCreation.html#magic- item-gold-piece-values
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It he take 1 day to make a pair of spectacles taht give +2 to spellcraft (cost skill squared * 100, CL 3, spell required Detect magic, DC8 [partially based on cloak of elvenkind]) he can make a handy haversack at level 4.Or a friend can help giving him a +2 to the spellcraft check.
However a friend in order to use Aid Another must have craft woundrous item?
In cases where the skill restricts who can achieve certain results, such as trying to open a lock using Disable Device, you can't aid another to grant a bonus to a task that your character couldn't achieve alone. The GM might impose further restrictions to aiding another on a case-by-case basis as well.Interesting spectacles but I can't find them, and can't understand what the cloak of elvenkind matters since gives +5 on stealth checks.
Thanks in advance.
Edit: Diego sei italiano per caso? XD
The limitation to the aid action is for skill use. The rules about collaborative crafting seem to allow it.
Louis IX already replied to the spectacles question, and he is correct.
Last question in the edit: Yes, I am from Padova.