Goblin Squad Member
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Procedural generation of content from Rocks and plants to monsters dungeons and even factions can lower the workload for artists while making game play/grind less monotonous.
For example since PFO will at some point offer a standard mmo character customization feature. Why not have such a system with thresholds for eye/body/hair type for goblins and other monsters so each is unique. An even simpler system could be added for trees and other scenery/crafting resources. If a resource is harvested a brand new similar yet unique tree/plant/deposit could be spawned somewhere else in the world.
ideascale topic here plz upvote: https://pathfinderonlinecrowdforging.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Procedural-generat ion-of-content/52167-30320?submitted=1
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah I have seen what fractal tree/rock/mountain procedural generators can produce and it's AAA quality if tweaked well. The possibilities of procedural generation are virtually limitless... even the behavior of npc's enemies and groups of enemies could be procedural. No encounter would play out the same and a place you visit once may be slightly different a month/year later. All procedurally generated content would be stored as hierarchical class variables so you don't need to send new meshes to the client other then normal updates for a new class/content type.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well they're using Grome to create the terrain.
Seems pretty cool. Not sure it'll be used to redo hexes on the fly "procedurally" to mix things up though. I do like the idea of randomizing hexes every so often...
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Goblin Squad Member
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That's true. More the features within the hex than changing the hex type or borders if it's a gradient boundary. Still that would have a minor effect too, but on everyone and different conditions overall I think would keep the "outback/bush" feeling wild. Call it such an approximation of the challenge of travel in pre-civilization days / off-road.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would rather that the landscape did not change, but that there are more landmarks to set things apart. I realize this is a lot of work, but currently it all looks totally the same to me: rolling hills with trees, wide open meadows and bald mountain-faces.
I am hoping that PoI's and Outposts, and even Smallholdings and basecamps will spice up things later on.
Landmarks being stuff that varies from a true rock face (like this Rockface )
to an abandoned windmill to a rusty harrow left in the field. Or even a fake little NPC town consisting of a few shacks and 3 farmers.
I did notice a few "merchants" standing about in escalations areas. are these meant for something?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Last I heard pretty much all trees are procedurally generated nowadays.
There are catches with procedural terrain though, if you are using true random procedural generated terrain client side it ends up being a lot more intensive on the player's machine with longer load times (which is a problem when their aren't really any load times in your game to begin with). You can also procedurally generate the terrain once, touch it up with some details, and then 'box it' as the terrain, lots of games do this to varying degrees.
An interesting place to use the random generation would be if they ever implemented something like random 'findable' temporary instanced dungeons. Something like that could be pretty neat use of the technique.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Last I heard pretty much all trees are procedurally generated nowadays.
There are catches with procedural terrain though, if you are using true random procedural generated terrain client side it ends up being a lot more intensive on the player's machine with longer load times (which is a problem when their aren't really any load times in your game to begin with). You can also procedurally generate the terrain once, touch it up with some details, and then 'box it' as the terrain, lots of games do this to varying degrees.
An interesting place to use the random generation would be if they ever implemented something like random 'findable' temporary instanced dungeons. Something like that could be pretty neat use of the technique.
"All procedurally generated content would be stored as hierarchical class variables so you don't need to send new meshes to the client other then normal updates for a new class/content type."-me
So the procedural generation takes place server side. For monsters and resource types it would be done as needed. For terrain variation over time it could happen during daily downtime or even once a week.
CEO
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I would rather that the landscape did not change, but that there are more landmarks to set things apart. I realize this is a lot of work, but currently it all looks totally the same to me: rolling hills with trees, wide open meadows and bald mountain-faces.
We already have a bunch of landmark-type terrain features that Dave has created. They just haven't been placed into the game yet as Mike has been heads-down focused on creating the EE map. Expect more things like interesting rock formations and such to be added as we move through EE and start to polish things quite a bit.
-Lisa
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would rather that the landscape did not change, but that there are more landmarks to set things apart. I realize this is a lot of work, but currently it all looks totally the same to me: rolling hills with trees, wide open meadows and bald mountain-faces.We already have a bunch of landmark-type terrain features that Dave has created. They just haven't been placed into the game yet as Mike has been heads-down focused on creating the EE map. Expect more things like interesting rock formations and such to be added as we move through EE and start to polish things quite a bit.
-Lisa
Awsome
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Goblin Squad Member
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"All procedurally generated content would be stored as hierarchical class variables so you don't need to send new meshes to the client other then normal updates for a new class/content type."-me
So the procedural generation takes place server side. For monsters and resource types it would be done as needed. For terrain variation over time it could happen during daily downtime or even once a week.
That would be my second example:
You can also procedurally generate the terrain once, touch it up with some details, and then 'box it' as the terrain, lots of games do this to varying degrees.
You could do it every few weeks with a patch instead of just at 'release', either way the client gets a currently static mesh. Plus it's not really a server side operation, it would just be part of their patch compilation, so you don't have to worry about the server managing or sending that data anywhere.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would rather that the landscape did not change, but that there are more landmarks to set things apart. I realize this is a lot of work, but currently it all looks totally the same to me: rolling hills with trees, wide open meadows and bald mountain-faces.We already have a bunch of landmark-type terrain features that Dave has created. They just haven't been placed into the game yet as Mike has been heads-down focused on creating the EE map. Expect more things like interesting rock formations and such to be added as we move through EE and start to polish things quite a bit.
-Lisa
As long as the landmarks don't move, they could really improve navigation for anyone who's been having trouble getting from place to place with a map and a largely-featureless landscape. In the real world, "Take a left at the big oak tree with the lightning scar," has always been a valid alternative to "Bear NNW for 1/2 mile, then bear WSW for 2 miles".
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CEO
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As long as the landmarks don't move, they could really improve navigation for anyone who's been having trouble getting from place to place with a map and a largely-featureless landscape. In the real world, "Take a left at the big oak tree with the lightning scar," has always been a valid alternative to "Bear NNW for 1/2 mile, then bear WSW for 2 miles".
That was exactly our thinking when we had Dave make those. You can see them from a good distance away. We had them in the internal test site around a year ago and they were awesome. You probably can see some of them in the promotional videos from that time. Heck, the picture at the top of the Goblinworks homepage has one of the rock formations in it.
-Lisa
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yes, that was exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for. I also wonder if its possible in Unity to make small caves in the mountainside? Not talking about elaborate stuff, just an old Bearcave with one or two splits going into the mountain for a couple of yards, with a couple of bones in the end.
Would be a nice place to hide from PvP. Or not, probably the first place they would look. :)
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CEO
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Yes, that was exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for. I also wonder if its possible in Unity to make small caves in the mountainside? Not talking about elaborate stuff, just an old Bearcave with one or two splits going into the mountain for a couple of yards, with a couple of bones in the end.
Would be a nice place to hide from PvP. Or not, probably the first place they would look. :)
There are issues with having a cave that is too deep, but if all you are talking about is a couple of yards, then that asset might already have been made.
In the past, whenever we have hit a major milestone, the company would have something call Pathfinding Days, where everyone would work on a pet project for a couple of days. Mike Hines used one of those periods to make a small cave. I should remind him about that today.
-Lisa
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CEO
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Although I appreciate all the comments in this thread(especially the encouraging info on polishing scenery and rock formations) it's somewhat disappointing that not much was said regarding the thread topic. I can only hope it was read at the least.
Everything is read. Trust me. I didn't comment on it as it is outside my area of expertise. I know that Mike is planning on continually working to make the procedural generation of terrain better and better. He has lots of ideas on things he wants to do, but not lots of time at the moment. If only we had useful cloning technology! :)
I expect the ability to procedurally create more and more evocative terrain will get better and better as PFO enters and moves through EE.
-Lisa
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Goblin Squad Member
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Dungeons and such are something for the future, I am sure they can make that work. Probably by making these into a public instance, so anyone can enter, but without having it be an integral part of the Hex where the entrance is.
I am just talking from an amateur perspective here.
At some point, stuff like the Emerald Spire will be crowdforged, I hope that soon after OE we may see the first level of that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Although I appreciate all the comments in this thread(especially the encouraging info on polishing scenery and rock formations) it's somewhat disappointing that not much was said regarding the thread topic. I can only hope it was read at the least.Everything is read. Trust me. I didn't comment on it as it is outside my area of expertise. I know that Mike is planning on continually working to make the procedural generation of terrain better and better. He has lots of ideas on things he wants to do, but not lots of time at the moment. If only we had useful cloning technology! :)
I expect the ability to procedurally create more and more evocative terrain will get better and better as PFO enters and moves through EE.
-Lisa
That's excellent news! Thanks.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Right now game have no checks for the trees and ground suface along the line of spell. You can shoot things on the other side of the hill. What you can do to poor things in the deep caves better be left to your imagination :) So we'll have no deep caves for a long time, imo.
Yes, and I have used that issue to my advantage when you find a monster camp in a hole they cannot climb directly out of you can shoot them with you bow with little return fire if they are busy trying to scale the hill. Cheesy technique, but it's in for the moment. Helps to solo some of the tougher bad guys.