| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Forest Guardian Press is our upcoming first freelancer PDF: Fighter: Nuances and Other Options by Christos Gurd (Noble Savage archetype from FGP’s ; Little Red Goblin Games' Tome of Twisted Things, Detective Base Class, Dragon Tiger Ox, Heroes of the East 4, Gonzo).
Fighters get a lot of bashing in comments and threads and yet the fighter love seems endless. Christos has created Fighter Nuances to extend and improve the thematic abilities of fighters to be able to do more of the things we expect great warirors and martial heroes to accomplish. This from Christos:
“These are made to function nearly identical to the wizards arcane discoveries, which added a lot of interesting exclusive options to that class. Now the question, “why not fighter feats?” is simple to answer, because by making an opt in class feature you can design without having to consider classes like brawler, warpriest, swashbuckler, and magus you can avoid a lot of unplanned synergy. This a chance to add some unique features to the class with thematic roots.”
Here are some of Christos’ design objectives:
Few, to No Chains. Each nuance should stand on its own, even if they end up better than feats by proxy. So much of the class still requires feats to do what it does that you shouldn’t see an over reliance on these over many types of builds. That being said if the reason was thematically strong enough, and they draw from the same resource (such as Fantastical Warrior and the nuances that require it) then a single prereq could be ok.
Scalability. Try to make some of these scale to at least some small degree, the value of a nuance shouldn’t decrease at higher levels.
Dip Avoidance. Try to avoid giving anything away too early, lowest should be around Fighter level 3 or an ability that doesn’t show up before then. There are exceptions if the scale is small enough.
I'll let Christos field any questions you have about the upcoming Fighter: Nuances and Other Options...
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Well look at that.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
An interesting idea, and definitely one that needs to exist to counteract recent power creep pushing the fighter into the realm of obsolescence.
right! Also included are various ways you can incorporate them into your game to support multiple play styles.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
so i am going to tease one to hopefully generate some buzz and discussion.
Compensative Specialization(Ex): Your prowess allows you to overcome your limitations when it comes to styles of combat.
You may add your fighter levels to your ability scores in order to meet the prerequisites of combat feats. For example you if have 4 levels in fighter and an 11 in dexterity you may treat your dexterity as 15 to qualify for two weapon fighting.
Interesting concept, though I've always been one to insist that breaking the optimization of your fighter's ability scores is the cost of going down the Combat Expertise pathway. I strongly suggest a heavy nerf to this ability, as being able to go pure Strength + Constitution heavy armor fighter with powerful niche feats picked up by virtue of a trick that says you can is one of those things that takes a system with a huge number of variables and smashes it down to a small number of "dominant strategies".
Balancing
Reducing the scaling either retains its problematic nature for pregenerated characters or makes it useless for all but very high-level munchkin prebuilds. I'd avoid working that variable too heavily.
Perhaps you can try setting an absolute maximum to the bonus. If this makes up for 3 points of Dexterity, it's not as overwhelming as letting a Dex-dumper pick up the full TWF chain, and as a rebalancing featswap, it comes out to be pretty fair.
Maybe try setting a slightly more generous maximum, but have your compensative specialization apply to only one ability score. The last thing you want to do is make it easy to go down the path of multi-weapon fighting, combat maneuvers, and monk tricks all at once.
How's this?
Compensative Specialization (Ex): Your prowess allows you to overcome your limitations when it comes to styles of combat. When you take this nuance, select a single ability score. You have a bonus to the chosen ability score equal to half your fighter level, maximum +5, for the purpose of meeting the prerequisites of feats. For example, if you select Dexterity and are an 8th-level fighter with an 11 in Dexterity, you treat your Dexterity as though it were 15 to qualify for the Two Weapon Fighting feat.
Special: You can take this nuance multiple times. Each time, select a new ability score.
I can say after using this as a flat patch to fighters for about 4 years now it really isn't the power boost you attribute to it. True it opens up options, but bypassing ability score prereqs is a ship that sailed in 3.5 with rangers. The single biggest advantage of this is strength based twf sword and board which takes up SO much investment that other aspects will suffer for the build.
|
Hey Chris, congrats!
So you were mentioning that Bravery gets some love in this product in a way that might complement the work I did for Owen at Rogue Genius Games on The Genius Guide to Bravery Feats. Care to tell us what you've done for Bravery, and maybe a bit about why?
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
@ssalarn certainly,
in regards to bravery i have several nuances that grant bonuses, or add additional bonuses, based on your current bravery bonus. Its always bothered me that the only sort of visceral fighter ability was basically an easy trade away, often for abilities that were flat better. The fact that bravery had a solid progression to work around to balance the scaling effect is a good reason as well. Also I really just wanted bravery to affect things I think a fantasy trope brave hero should affect.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
btw i also wrote nuances that reward fighters who invest in non-physical ability scores, especially intelligence.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
*** Its always bothered me that the only sort of visceral fighter ability was basically an easy trade away, often for abilities that were flat better. The fact that bravery had a solid progression to work around to balance the scaling effect is a good reason as well. Also I really just wanted bravery to affect things I think a fantasy trope brave hero should affect.
I (obviously) had noticed the exact same thing! I really kind of feel like Bravery could be that one thematic element that actually separates the Fighter and defines it as its own thing, instead of "that class with a bunch of feats". Weapon Training and Armor Training, while useful, aren't really dynamic or thematic. When's the last time you read a book where the coolest thing about a guy was that his armor chafed less when he ran?
Anyways, neat to see that there's that much more material to help build off the idea of Bravery as the core of a character.
If i do a follow up product i will do lot more bravery focused nuances, as i had to restrain myself this time to make the product more generally fighter friendly.
alternate rules for using nuances include the following,
Nuance feats
Nuance deeds
and
A Touch of Magic(which includes directly magical and supernatural nuances)
i chose to make the magical nuances a separate system in order to preserve the whole "fighters aren't magical" thing groups are going for.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Release Date?!
@Malwing: Sorry I don't have a solid release date - if Christos is happy with some of the art roughs and we can find some ancient/copyright-free warriors we should be good to go into editing and layout...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
http://www.fromoldbooks.org/Search/?source=unspecified&kw=soldiers& loc=any&size=any&wantedorder=unsorted&mode=grid&rpp=20& submit=Search
An interesting idea, and definitely one that needs to exist to counteract recent power creep pushing the fighter into the realm of obsolescence.
Um...meaning no offense, but 'recent' isn't really a great term here. Ranger got published in the same book as Fighter way back in 3.5. Fighter's been obsolete for a very long time.
So a disclaimer, if you are looking for a product that has stuff like add +4 damage or similar damage boosters then this probably probably will disappoint you. Any combat applied nuances typically help the fighter perform in normally unfavorable situations, such as difficult to bypass damage reduction.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
ok while im still waiting on art i will tease another nuance
Fully Trained Soldier(Ex): Those who have been trained in the ways of warfare often have to fill a variety of duties. Being the ultimate form of soldier, you excel by virtue of your exceptional training.
You may use your Profession(soldier) skill in place of any of the following; heal, perception, sense motive, and survival checks. You cannot substitute a greater number of ranks in profession(soldier) than your current fighter level. You must be a 2nd level fighter to select this nuance.
http://www.fromoldbooks.org/Search/?source=unspecified&kw=soldiers& loc=any&size=any&wantedorder=unsorted&mode=grid&rpp=20& submit=Search
Thanks Bradley.
Here to help, sir!
so guess what popped up! link
Neat stuff; christos, I sent you a PM.
Yes, Fighter: Nuances is finally available - currently at DrivethruRPG, soon (hopefully) to be up on d20PFSRD and Paizo.
may favorite part was writing the alternative methods for using them for the last 1/2 of the pdf.
Sweet! I'll check it out!
Also now available at d20PFSRD - I'll let folks know when it hits Paizo!!!
Sweet! I'll check it out!
I'm sure CHristos would be heartily glad to receive a review for all his hard work, and I'm keen to see if folk are still hating my artwork… ;P
its true. what i would especially like to hear for feedback is
1.what you liked(duh)
2.what you didn't like(every bit as important really)
3.which style of implementing nuances interested you the most
4.what you would like to see if i did a follow up to this(no promises yet)
Ok - now available here at Paizo!!!
Sweet! I'll check it out!I'm sure CHristos would be heartily glad to receive a review for all his hard work, and I'm keen to see if folk are still hating my artwork… ;P
Hey, I LIKE your silhouettes.
Hey, I LIKE your silhouettes.Sweet! I'll check it out!I'm sure CHristos would be heartily glad to receive a review for all his hard work, and I'm keen to see if folk are still hating my artwork… ;P
i like it because it reminds me of bronze art i was surrounded by growing up.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
So would people like to see more for nuances other classes? I actually something in mind for monks.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Sweet! I'll check it out!I'm sure CHristos would be heartily glad to receive a review for all his hard work, and I'm keen to see if folk are still hating my artwork… ;P
Reviewed! And I did not hate the art. Though my girlfriend did think some of the pieces were funny looking. I liked the classic look the art had.
This book has some awesome synergy going on with the Genius Guide to Bravery Feats. I am really liking that.
And yes Christos, this Nuances line seems very fun. I'd love to see what you come up with for monks.
So would people like to see more for nuances other classes? I actually something in mind for monks.
Might as well go rogue, too, and complete the trifecta of low-tier martials.
So would people like to see more for nuances other classes? I actually something in mind for monks.Might as well go rogue, too, and complete the trifecta of low-tier martials.
i think being allowed to trade either sneak attakc dice or talents is a good way to start with rogues(as well as do a slew of talents for them)...so yeah probably should do them as well.
This book has some awesome synergy going on with the Genius Guide to Bravery Feats. I am really liking that.
indeed! As i am a huge fan of that product so i am glad it actually ended working well together(most of my bravery themed ones were written in at least some form or another before it came out so it wasn't exactly intentional).
And yes Christos, this Nuances line seems very fun. I'd love to see what you come up with for monks.
well i may do a small follow up fighter one before monk, now that i know the idea is wanted.
Sweet! I'll check it out!I'm sure CHristos would be heartily glad to receive a review for all his hard work, and I'm keen to see if folk are still hating my artwork… ;PReviewed! And I did not hate the art. Though my girlfriend did think some of the pieces were funny looking. I liked the classic look the art had.
This book has some awesome synergy going on with the Genius Guide to Bravery Feats. I am really liking that.
And yes Christos, this Nuances line seems very fun. I'd love to see what you come up with for monks.
Hey thanks for the review Adam! You did forget to actually place the star review however…
And thanks for the kind words about the artwork…
Fighters, Monks and Rogues? Sounds mundanely fantastic!!!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Sounds like a TPK waiting to happen, if you ask me.
Sounds like a TPK waiting to happen, if you ask me.
Or the wildest night of three player's lives.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
This book has some awesome synergy going on with the Genius Guide to Bravery Feats. I am really liking that.
Bravery for the win!
Nothing like taking the class feature that is both mechanically the worst and thematically one of the best and turning it into a character defining backbone.
I posted this on the product page as well
1. add to Maneuver Specialist the following line
If you have the fantastical warrior nuance you may expend a use while performing a combat maneuver to ignore that enemy’s immunity to that maneuver for one turn
2.Add to Ultimate Soldier
Whenever you are subject to a constitution based check you may always treat the result of your roll as 20.
3.Add to Ultimate Veteran
You gain an insight bonus on knowledge checks to identify enemies in battle equal to 10 + your wisdom or intelligence modifier, whichever is higher.
that folks is the pending errata for this product.
Ooooh, I like it. Especially the Maneuver Training one.
Ooooh, I like it. Especially the Maneuver Training one.
glad to deliver, start tripping some nagas!
* Nice work Christos!!!
I'll make the changes and get the PDF updated ASAP...
I aim to please.
Ooooh, I like it. Especially the Maneuver Training one.glad to deliver, start tripping some nagas!
Is there any possibility of a slight added bonus when you successfully execute a combat maneuver that your target is supposed to be immune to? I would think a naga would be quite confused when its face hit the ground.
Not a bad idea, i may work with that.