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Faq says rays count as ranged weapons, and prone says you cannot use a ranged weapon if you're prone with the exception of a cross bow. So, ranged spells don't work while prone by RAW, correct?
Also, does enervation with temp levels kill you if they reduce your level to zero?
Faq
Ray: Do rays count as weapons for the purpose of spells and effects that affect weapons?
Yes. (See also this FAQ item for a similar question about rays and weapon feats.)
For example, a bard's inspire courage says it affects "weapon damage rolls," which is worded that way so don't try to add the bonus to a spell like fireball. However, rays are treated as weapons, whether they're from spells, a monster ability, a class ability, or some other source, so the inspire courage bonus applies to ray attack rolls and ray damage rolls.
The same rule applies to weapon-like spells such as flame blade, mage's sword, and spiritual weapon--effects that affect weapons work on these spells.
Prone
The character is lying on the ground. A prone attacker has a –4 penalty on melee attack rolls and cannot use a ranged weapon (except for a crossbow). A prone defender gains a +4 bonus to Armor Class against ranged attacks, but takes a –4 penalty to AC against melee attacks.
Standing up is a move-equivalent action that provokes an attack of opportunity.
The FAQ is addressing what feats, abilities, and bonuses affect rays. It does not state that rays are actually ranged weapons.
You can fire a ray from the ground.
Ray
Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible creature and hope you hit something. You don't have to see the creature you're trying to hit, as you do with a targeted spell. Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature at which you're aiming.
If a ray spell has a duration, it's the duration of the effect that the ray causes, not the length of time the ray itself persists.
If a ray spell deals damage, you can score a critical hit just as if it were a weapon. A ray spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit.
You're really stretching here. The rules cannot cover everything, especially if a situation has never come up before.
I think the words "as if using" are pretty important. The ray is not actually a weapon.
Common sense (not always applicable, I know) suggests that the reason ranged weapons except crossbows cannot be used while prone is because the wielder needs to be standing in order to physically wield slings or bows.
To cast a spell, including rays, the caster needs to have one hand free.
Do you believe that all spells require the caster to be standing? If not, why should ray spells be any different?
Therefore, I would apply the basic spellcasting requirements only and not worry about prone.
Also, does enervation with temp levels kill you if they reduce your level to zero?
Yes.
I'm just looking for raw, and I agree that it is a bit ridiculous to restrict a ray in this situation. The faq which I bolded really has strong language for it being a weapon.
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I'm just looking for raw, and I agree that it is a bit ridiculous to restrict a ray in this situation. The faq which I bolded really has strong language for it being a weapon.Looking for RAW exploits is a bit of a dangerous game. GM fiat exists in pretty much every game, even PFS has a "common sense" clause. Now, looking at this from a strict RAW standpoint, the FAQ says
Ray: Do rays count as weapons for the purpose of spells and effects that affect weapons?
Yes. (See also this FAQ item for a similar question about rays and weapon feats.)
For example, a bard's inspire courage says it affects "weapon damage rolls," which is worded that way so don't try to add the bonus to a spell like fireball. However, rays are treated as weapons, whether they're from spells, a monster ability, a class ability, or some other source, so the inspire courage bonus applies to ray attack rolls and ray damage rolls.
The same rule applies to weapon-like spells such as flame blade, mage's sword, and spiritual weapon--effects that affect weapons work on these spells.
Prone doesn't actually affect the weapon, it affects the wielder. The wielder cannot fire a ranged weapon from the ground, but the ray is not wielded like a ranged weapon, it is merely treated as one for the purposes of spells and effects that affect weapons. This is looking at things from a silly-close RAW point of view.
From a more relaxed point of view, you aren't doing something like drawing back a longbow or spinning a sling around, you are moving your fingers a little and muttering, which is much easier to do on the floor. So, it would make logical sense that you could.
Personally, I'd be fine if it didn't work in terms of power(because casters can easily take a minor nerf) but RAW and most likely RAI(debatable) this works.
EvilPaladin, prone condition prevents ranged weapons from being fired other than from crossbows, and the FAQ points out that a ray uses a weapon damage roll, and a attack roll. The FAQ also points out they're treated as weapons for multiple situations, including "or some other source", but especially for spells. So, you use a ray as a spell, and you got yourself a ranged weapon which can't be fired while prone.
I don't understand the weapon vs wielder deal. You cast the ray, then you make your ranged attack with it, which sounds awfully like you're wielding the ray to me if that even matters to point out.
As if =/= Is.
There are quite a few spots in the rules where one thing is treated as if it were another thing.
The thing is, the fact that the language "as if" is used in teh first place confirms beyond a shadow of a doubt that this thing is not what it works as if it was.
Otherwise, it would simply say "This is".
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1) Prone: The character is lying on the ground. A prone attacker has a –4 penalty on melee attack rolls and cannot use a ranged weapon (except for a crossbow). A prone defender gains a +4 bonus to Armor Class against ranged attacks, but takes a –4 penalty to AC against melee attacks.
Standing up is a move-equivalent action that provokes an attack of opportunity.
2) Ray: Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible creature and hope you hit something. You don't have to see the creature you're trying to hit, as you do with a targeted spell. Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature at which you're aiming.
3) Ray: Do rays count as weapons for the purpose of spells and effects that affect weapons?
Yes. (See also this FAQ item for a similar question about rays and weapon feats.)
For example, a bard's inspire courage says it affects "weapon damage rolls," which is worded that way so don't try to add the bonus to a spell like fireball. However, rays are treated as weapons, whether they're from spells, a monster ability, a class ability, or some other source, so the inspire courage bonus applies to ray attack rolls and ray damage rolls.
The same rule applies to weapon-like spells such as flame blade, mage's sword, and spiritual weapon--effects that affect weapons work on these spells.
So: 1 say that you can't use ranged weapons while prone; 2 say that you aim ray as ranged weapons, not that they are ranged weapons, 3 say that ray are treated as ranged weapon for feat and effects that affect weapons.
"Aimed as" don't make a ray a ranged weapon.
Being prone don't affect the weapon but the wielder so rays don't fall under 3.
So it is possible to use ray while prone.
A more interesting question is if you can use alchemical bombs or alchemist's fire while prone. The rules say that it is not possible, training with throwing hand grenades defensively say that you can, but with a reduced range.
Don't limit the faqs answer to just the question that is asked specifically, but what's written in the faq.
I also hadn't thought about splash weapons and bombs. I've heard the apg I believe it was has expanding rules on exceptions to the prone condition that include allowing some or all firearms.