mutagen and stat Penalties and how it affects feats.


Rules Questions


If a fighter with the mutation warrior / martial master archtypes drinks his mutagen does he lose accesss to feats he no longer has the prerequisites for?
Example, int 13 and combat expertise .
Drinks str mutagen int is now 11.
Can he no longer use martial flexibility to gain feats that require combat expertiese?

Dark Archive

No, only permanent ability score losses can cause any loss of access.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I thought that feats you no longer have prerequisites for became "dormant" and that you couldn't use them until your stat returned to normal. Is this wrong?


Wheldrake wrote:
I thought that feats you no longer have prerequisites for became "dormant" and that you couldn't use them until your stat returned to normal. Is this wrong?

They do. But "ability damage" is a game-defined term, as follows:

"Diseases, poisons, spells, and other abilities can all deal damage directly to your ability scores. This damage does not actually reduce an ability, but it does apply a penalty to the skills and statistics that are based on that ability."

The only thing that actually reduces a score is "ability drain":

"Ability drain actually reduces the relevant ability score. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to lose skill points, hit points, and other bonuses."

Sczarni

And, although I can't quote the rule right now, ability penalties (like from Mutagen) are treated as damage, not drain.


Wheldrake wrote:
I thought that feats you no longer have prerequisites for became "dormant" and that you couldn't use them until your stat returned to normal. Is this wrong?

You are correct but there are cavetas. If you use a belt of strength to reach 13 strength to use power attack then lose the belt you can no longer use power attack. If you have instead have the belt and take 4 ability damage your strength is still 13, but you now have a -2 penalty to anything that uses your strength modifier. If you have the belt, and take 4 points of ability drain your strength is actually reduced to the new value. Though the math is effectively the same it is the difference between 13 strength with a -4 penalty and having a strength of 9. The first allows you to keep using the feat, the second will cause you to lose it.

The ability penalty from mutagen is, I believe, ability damage not drain.


So the consensus is that i can use improved trip with martial versatility after the penalty to intelligence from mutagen. Groovy

Grand Lodge

PRD wrote:
Some spells and abilities cause you to take an ability penalty for a limited amount of time. While in effect, these penalties function just like ability damage, but they cannot cause you to fall unconscious or die.

As Orfamay quoted, ability damage doesn't reduce your ability score, so you still qualify.

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