question about detect magic and scrying


Rules Questions


in a party member is being scryed on, the spell says it has a 10ft range, and another party member across the room casts detect magic would they pick up the scrying? and when a pc that is being scryed on passes their save the scrying spell fails does the pc know about the spell?


Yes, the scrying sensor is noticeable with Detect Magic (or a Perception check.)

Scrying wrote:

A scrying spell creates an invisible magical sensor that sends you information. Unless noted otherwise, the sensor has the same powers of sensory acuity that you possess. This level of acuity includes any spells or effects that target you, but not spells or effects that emanate from you. The sensor, however, is treated as a separate, independent sensory organ of yours, and thus functions normally even if you have been blinded or deafened, or otherwise suffered sensory impairment.

A creature can notice the sensor by making a Perception check with a DC 20 + the spell level. The sensor can be dispelled as if it were an active spell.

Lead sheeting or magical protection blocks a scrying spell, and you sense that the spell is blocked.

The answer to your second question is "kind of" - the PC knows that something tried to affect them, but they don't know what or by whom.

Succeeding on a Saving Throw wrote:
A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature's saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell, you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.


thank you


So RumpinRufus has the correct answer to the second question, the first question is more complicated.

If the PCs succeeds on their save against Scrying feels a hostile force or tingle, but doesn't know what it is specifically. They wouldn't instantly know someone attempted to scry them, but would give plenty of cause to be paranoid about their current location.

As for the first question, it's a bit more complicated but the answer is, sort of.

Detect magic would detect the scrying sensor if it is within the 30ft cone, but there are complications to it. Look at the rules for detect magic.

Quote:

You detect magical auras. The amount of information revealed depends on how long you study a particular area or subject.

1st Round: Presence or absence of magical auras.

2nd Round: Number of different magical auras and the power of the most potent aura.

3rd Round: The strength and location of each aura. If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight, you can make Knowledge (arcana) skill checks to determine the school of magic involved in each. (Make one check per aura: DC 15 + spell level, or 15 + 1/2 caster level for a nonspell effect.) If the aura emanates from a magic item, you can attempt to identify its properties (see Spellcraft).

So, depending on whether the scrying sensor moves (and it can) you may not get a proper bead on it. It would need to remain within the cone for you to continue building rounds on it, and the first round only would tell you there is something magical in that 30ft cone (note that if a character with a magical item or spell cast on them is in the cone it sets it off too). On the second round it would tell you the number of auras (if a character was in the cone all their magical gear would pop up) and the power of the strongest aura (power is based on spell level of effects present). Finally on the 3rd round, you know the location of the auras (you don't get to know before, round 1 is a yes/no magic, round 2 is number of auras in cone) and if the auras are in line of sight you can use Know(arcana) to identify the school of the magic. Which would tell you that a divination school spell of was in a specific location, but not tell you that it was specifically scrying.

Of course, the scrying sensor is mobile and unlikely to stay within the 30ft cone for 3 consecutive rounds, making it exceedingly difficult to succeed at this.


I think he's talking specifically about the spell Scrying, which makes a sensor that is effectively anchored to the target (unless the target is moving faster than 150 ft/round.) There is no way, AFAIK, to control the movement of the sensor from the spell Scrying... only the target of the spell can move the sensor.

If it was an Arcane Eye, it would be a different story and the caster would be able to move it around independently of the target.


RumpinRufus wrote:

I think he's talking specifically about the spell Scrying, which makes a sensor that is effectively anchored to the target (unless the target is moving faster than 150 ft/round.) There is no way, AFAIK, to control the movement of the sensor from the spell Scrying... only the target of the spell can move the sensor.

If it was an Arcane Eye, it would be a different story and the caster would be able to move it around independently of the target.

It has to be within 10ft of the target, but it doesn't actually specify how it moves around the target.

I like to imagine it as a floating invisible eyeball. Probably one that orbits at a 10ft radius around the target.


Claxon wrote:

It has to be within 10ft of the target, but it doesn't actually specify how it moves around the target.

I like to imagine it as a floating invisible eyeball. Probably one that orbits at a 10ft radius around the target.

It's not that it has to be within 10 feet of the target, rather that it can sense things within 10 feet of the target. Which means that it is located on the target. If it was 10 feet away from the target, it would be able to see 20 feet on one side of the target and 0 feet on the other.

Scrying wrote:

You can observe a creature at any distance. If the subject succeeds on a Will save, the spell fails. The difficulty of the save depends on how well your knowledge of the subject and what sort of physical connection (if any) you have to that creature. Furthermore, if the subject is on another plane, it gets a +5 bonus on its Will save.

If the save fails, you can see and hear the subject and its surroundings (approximately 10 feet in all directions of the subject). If the subject moves, the sensor follows at a speed of up to 150 feet.

Nothing in the spell gives you control over the movement of the sensor (that would be Arcane Eye.) But even for the sake of argument, if your GM allowed you to move the sensor within a 10-foot-radius sphere, it could still easily be within a 60-foot cone if the person casting Detect Magic was a few feet away.


Actually, you know what, it doesn't really specify either way (that the sensor is on the target or not) nor does it specify anything about how it moves, other than to say it moves 150ft per round to follow the target.

But you are right that with proper placement you could get it into a 60ft cone even if it did orbit 10ft away. However, you still have to wait 3 turns to find out if it was even there and you might only know because of the existence of a divination aura (assuming no other active spells or gear had a divination aura), and the magical gear on the character could very much interfere with the information you recieve or the conclusion you might be able to reach.

You are definitely right about these important omissions from the spell being a problem for understanding how it should work.

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