6-02 The Silver Mount Collection [Spoilers]


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4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

How bad a GM would I be if I just use Transformers instead of running around trying to find robot minis this week? :)

Seriously though, I need to find three flying drone-like minis?!

What are other people planning to use?

Dark Archive 4/5 *

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I'm not sure what to use. I was looking at some of the warmachine stuff, but at $30+ a pop unpainted, I don't think it's worth spending since I'll only be using it in this scenario, I don't expect my normal gaming group will have interest in playing Iron Gods.

4/5

I see that on Amazon I can get a package of 144 junky plastic spaceships for under 7 bucks. :) I wonder if I can paint them.

4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

older mageknight mini's I've gotten them at less than $1 each and have some great mini's.

Blade Golem
Brass Golem
Whirling golem

and more....

I don't have names for the others since I de-based them and placed them on another base.

You can get these at TrollandToad.

4/5

Thanks. For the humanoid robots I ordered some Battleguard Golems from the Reaper Bones line. It's finding non-humanoid flying robots that still fit in one square that I am finding tricky.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/55/5 ****

The thing that comes to mind for me is the player figures for the board game RoboRally. It's a fun game and would be quite amusing to see them used in this context. I'm sure someone at GenCon will have it that you could borrow/steal/purchase, since it's actually a fun game.

Sovereign Court 5/5

clockwork soldies is my plan for the humanoid. they r out of shattered star. for fliers im gonna use battletech stuff

Dark Archive 4/5 *

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Wound up ordering some of the older mage knight minis - Blade Golems and Whirling Golems. I did order some inexpensive battletech, but the ones I ordered were not fliers. I'll see how they look and will probably be doing some vendor hall shopping Thursday as I'm not running this until Friday afternoon.

4/5

You can also lok for Mechanicalchaser mini its a flying robot

Disappointed by this:
I cant believe the shape of the Blakros Museum was changed. I thought that was an iconic piece of PFS. I would have expanded or conducted ' interior decoration'. But its described as the old structure in box text...ugh

4/5

In the opening monologue, Drandle Dreng indicates that he was "furloughed" for a while. Does anyone know what that is in reference to?

Also, how are you guys going to keep your players from exploring the basement when they find stairs to the basement? I was surprised the author didn't comment on this.

June, I agree with your about the internal changes. Is nothing sacred?

Dark Archive 4/5 *

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

As far as the stairs to the basement, I will either just not draw them or if they decide to go down, it will just be a large, open space full of crates and boxes and nothing else.

I don't know if I can use that Yugioh mini with a straight face. I'll either just run the non-fliers that I have and tell them they are fliers or try to find something in the vendor hall on Thursday, since I am not running this until Friday.

Liberty's Edge 1/5

In regards to actual mechanics of the creatures, I think I'm noticing a typo on the Gearsman Robot on p9:

ATK: ... or mwk spear +10 (1d8 + 5/x3 + 1d6 electricity)

The damage should be 1d8 + 7, yes? The higher tier robot is 1.5xSTR, but the lower tier is 1 x STR.

-Michael

Dark Archive 4/5 *

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I'm drawing out maps now and wondering where do the stairs in B10 go? There's nothing coming up from below - do they go to an unmapped third floor?

Sovereign Court 3/5

CigarPete wrote:

I'm drawing out maps now and wondering where do the stairs in B10 go? There's nothing coming up from below - do they go to an unmapped third floor?

I assumed its something outside the scope of the adventure.

4/5

I printed out some beautiful big maps, but the secret doors still stayed labeled. Sigh. I guess I will be drawing it out after all tonight. Good thing I picked up a plastic T-Rex the other day.

3/5

I'm borrowing some Stars Wars minister battle droids for robots and some 40K tau drones for the minis.

Sovereign Court 4/5

Wabajck wrote:
CigarPete wrote:

I'm drawing out maps now and wondering where do the stairs in B10 go? There's nothing coming up from below - do they go to an unmapped third floor?

I assumed its something outside the scope of the adventure.

'Voice in the Void' spoiler:
Maybe down into the basement complex from 'Voice in the Void'
4/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere

CigarPete wrote:

I'm drawing out maps now and wondering where do the stairs in B10 go? There's nothing coming up from below - do they go to an unmapped third floor?

I opted to draw displays in their place, since they didn't seem relevant to the scenario and my players hate "beyond the scope of this scenario" stuff.

In unrelated comments, I can't remember the last time a scenario made me flail about as gleefully as this one did. Kudos, Crystal.

Shadow Lodge

Rei wrote:
CigarPete wrote:

I'm drawing out maps now and wondering where do the stairs in B10 go? There's nothing coming up from below - do they go to an unmapped third floor?

I opted to draw displays in their place, since they didn't seem relevant to the scenario and my players hate "beyond the scope of this scenario" stuff.

In unrelated comments, I can't remember the last time a scenario made me flail about as gleefully as this one did. Kudos, Crystal.

Based on the box text for B6 ("A grand staircase rises to the north"), I expect that the two staircases in B10 are supposed to connect to the raised platform on the north side of B6. The first floor map instead has a railing here. This would create the main connection between the first and second floors--as a museum that wants high traffic, cramming all of your guests into the one narrow public staircase near the bathrooms doesn't make a lot of sense. This also helps to justify why the B10 encounter is structured in the way that it is.

If you're running with a printed copy of the museum map, the railing could maybe be played off as a rope cordon, meant to keep guests out of the upper floor until Nigel made a grand reveal on re-opening night. One of the two barricades, however, would have been destroyed to allow the infested human to drag the sarcophagus lid upstairs.

Shadow Lodge

Personally, I have a question for running the final encounter. The lengthy description of the infest ability discusses how to stat an infested creature:

Quote:
An infested creature retains its physical ability scores, hit points, special attacks, and natural abilities, while the cyberplasm uses its own mental ability scores, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, alignment, and mental abilities. ... a cyberplasm can't access its host's thoughts, skills, or mental abilities...

The stat block we get for the infested human, however, uses the base NPC's feats and (modified) skills, right down to a -1 Perform: Dance. If the cyberplasm doesn't actually have access to these things as the ability claims, should I be running him with the construct's feats and skills instead, restatted to the NPC's physical abilities?

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

Other than electricity granting new saves, I don't see how the party is supposed to get the thing out of him. And with each side taking half the damage, the kid's gonna run out of his 22 hp a lot faster then the goo's 70.

4/5

thistledown wrote:
Other than electricity granting new saves, I don't see how the party is supposed to get the thing out of him. And with each side taking half the damage, the kid's gonna run out of his 22 hp a lot faster then the goo's 70.

The cyberplasm can leave its host as a move action, which I had it do once the kid was unconscious. It makes sense for it to seek a healthy host. Also, the party may have picked up wands of remove disease downstairs, which may expel it from the kid.

4/5

MForey wrote:


Based on the box text for B6 ("A grand staircase rises to the north"), I expect that the two staircases in B10 are supposed to connect to the raised platform on the north side of B6. The first floor map instead has a railing here. This would create the main connection between the first and second floors--as a museum that wants high traffic, cramming all of your guests into the one narrow public staircase near the bathrooms doesn't make a lot of sense. This also helps to justify why the B10 encounter is structured in the way that it is.

If you're running with a printed copy of the museum map, the railing could maybe be played off as a rope cordon, meant to keep guests out of the upper floor until Nigel made a grand reveal on re-opening night. One of the two barricades, however, would have been destroyed to allow the infested human to drag the sarcophagus lid upstairs.

I agree with MForey, that makes a lot more sense. I think this may be one of the times the map maker didn't draw what the author actually described. (Like in The Hellnight's Feast where the map maker put a bed in the bathroom.)

Shadow Lodge

Mimo Tomblebur wrote:
thistledown wrote:
Other than electricity granting new saves, I don't see how the party is supposed to get the thing out of him. And with each side taking half the damage, the kid's gonna run out of his 22 hp a lot faster then the goo's 70.

The cyberplasm can leave its host as a move action, which I had it do once the kid was unconscious. It makes sense for it to seek a healthy host. Also, the party may have picked up wands of remove disease downstairs, which may expel it from the kid.

That more or less seems to be the point. The kid is supposed to end up as an unfortunate casualty unless the party is lucky, good, or both, and that's exactly where the drama of the scenario is supposed to come from.

It can be talked out if the party can magically overcome the language barrier. Dealing electricity to it is a hint you get either for befriending the enemy agent, by extrapolation, or by a very good engineering roll. The trick is, the party may well be suffering from resource starvation by the time they hit the boss room. Even then, you can't go 5d6 shocking grasp on his butt without killing the kid--wonder how many of your casters remember that they can intentionally reduce their caster level?

(Edit: And now that I think about it, there is at least one creative combat solution that will allow you to kill the plasm while it's still possessing the kid, without ever forcing it out or killing the host.)

Treating a possession/magic jar-esque effect as being subject to remove disease feels like a stretch to me. I can see where the creature might be categorized as parasitic, but I'm not sure how many people are going to draw that connection on their own. The oozes from the previous room have the potential to toss out so many fort saves vs. disease that the wand will feel like it was added specifically for that encounter.

With regard to the talking solution, my take on its tactics block ("stays to the back as much as possible") is that it doesn't jump into combat unless engaged. Busting the heads of the guys downstairs was a lucky break for it, and it's smart enough to know that. As long as the party's reluctant to attack it for fear of killing the kid, there's time enough to find a caster-for-hire who can cast tongues. (CL5 wizard, L3 spell = 150gp. With the resources of Absalom at its disposal, the PFS could easily rustle up one. Nigel, for instance.) If they're not, well, accidents can happen.

4/5 5/55/5 **

June Soler wrote:

You can also lok for Mechanicalchaser mini its a flying robot

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
If I recall correctly, it's hinted at in the scenario that the museum is now bigger on the inside due to containing extradimensional space as part of the "renovations".
Scarab Sages 4/5 *** Venture-Captain, Pennsylvania—Philadelphia

Two questions:

1) PC's should be using Knowledge: engineering (not Knowledge: arcana) to figure out anything about the clockworks and the cyberplasm, correct? I don't think it lists this anywhere in the scenario, but that's my understanding based on the Technology Guide information from the PRD.

2) Is there actually a way to repair the hazard crate? The conclusion suggests it is possible, but I don't see any more information about it.

Dark Archive 4/5 *

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
ChesterCopperpot wrote:

Two questions:

1) PC's should be using Knowledge: engineering (not Knowledge: arcana) to figure out anything about the clockworks and the cyberplasm, correct? I don't think it lists this anywhere in the scenario, but that's my understanding based on the Technology Guide information from the PRD.

2) Is there actually a way to repair the hazard crate? The conclusion suggests it is possible, but I don't see any more information about it.

Knowledge Engineering is the appropriate skill.

There is a Knowledge Engineering check to know that the crate needs specific parts to be repaired. Presumably those are supplied off-screen at the conclusion as I don't believe they are included in the scenario anywhere.

Scarab Sages 4/5 *** Venture-Captain, Pennsylvania—Philadelphia

CigarPete wrote:
ChesterCopperpot wrote:

Two questions:

1) PC's should be using Knowledge: engineering (not Knowledge: arcana) to figure out anything about the clockworks and the cyberplasm, correct? I don't think it lists this anywhere in the scenario, but that's my understanding based on the Technology Guide information from the PRD.

2) Is there actually a way to repair the hazard crate? The conclusion suggests it is possible, but I don't see any more information about it.

Knowledge Engineering is the appropriate skill.

There is a Knowledge Engineering check to know that the crate needs specific parts to be repaired. Presumably those are supplied off-screen at the conclusion as I don't believe they are included in the scenario anywhere.

Thanks!

One (hopefully final) question, to make sure I'm doing this right:
On the constructs, elemental damage is reduced by hardness, but it is NOT halved before hardness is applied, correct?

(Elemental damage is halved on objects, the constructs are creatures?)

Grand Lodge 4/5

ChesterCopperpot wrote:
CigarPete wrote:
ChesterCopperpot wrote:

Two questions:

1) PC's should be using Knowledge: engineering (not Knowledge: arcana) to figure out anything about the clockworks and the cyberplasm, correct? I don't think it lists this anywhere in the scenario, but that's my understanding based on the Technology Guide information from the PRD.

2) Is there actually a way to repair the hazard crate? The conclusion suggests it is possible, but I don't see any more information about it.

Knowledge Engineering is the appropriate skill.

There is a Knowledge Engineering check to know that the crate needs specific parts to be repaired. Presumably those are supplied off-screen at the conclusion as I don't believe they are included in the scenario anywhere.

Thanks!

One (hopefully final) question, to make sure I'm doing this right:
On the constructs, elemental damage is reduced by hardness, but it is NOT halved before hardness is applied, correct?

(Elemental damage is halved on objects, the constructs are creatures?)

Here's a thread about that.

Dark Archive 4/5 *

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
ChesterCopperpot wrote:
CigarPete wrote:
ChesterCopperpot wrote:

Two questions:

1) PC's should be using Knowledge: engineering (not Knowledge: arcana) to figure out anything about the clockworks and the cyberplasm, correct? I don't think it lists this anywhere in the scenario, but that's my understanding based on the Technology Guide information from the PRD.

2) Is there actually a way to repair the hazard crate? The conclusion suggests it is possible, but I don't see any more information about it.

Knowledge Engineering is the appropriate skill.

There is a Knowledge Engineering check to know that the crate needs specific parts to be repaired. Presumably those are supplied off-screen at the conclusion as I don't believe they are included in the scenario anywhere.

Thanks!

One (hopefully final) question, to make sure I'm doing this right:
On the constructs, elemental damage is reduced by hardness, but it is NOT halved before hardness is applied, correct?

(Elemental damage is halved on objects, the constructs are creatures?)

I believe so, unless it is electricity damage, in which case, vulnerability should be applied before hardness.

4/5 5/55/5 **

CigarPete wrote:
ChesterCopperpot wrote:

Two questions:

1) PC's should be using Knowledge: engineering (not Knowledge: arcana) to figure out anything about the clockworks and the cyberplasm, correct? I don't think it lists this anywhere in the scenario, but that's my understanding based on the Technology Guide information from the PRD.

2) Is there actually a way to repair the hazard crate? The conclusion suggests it is possible, but I don't see any more information about it.

Knowledge Engineering is the appropriate skill.

There is a Knowledge Engineering check to know that the crate needs specific parts to be repaired. Presumably those are supplied off-screen at the conclusion as I don't believe they are included in the scenario anywhere.

And they need to have the Technologist feat, or they must make the skill check untrained.

Also, I do have an observation that I want to hear how other people handle:

With Pendleton's possession, it says that he is treated as unconscious and that the swarm is controlling him. Tactics say that the swarm is ejected with the host dies. I ran that when Pendleton went into negatives, nothing happened to indicate that, as he was already unconscious with a controlling host that wouldn't exit until he was dead dead. How do/did/will other people handle that?

Silver Crusade 4/5

Lunar Sloth wrote:

Also, I do have an observation that I want to hear how other people handle:

With Pendleton's possession, it says that he is treated as unconscious and that the swarm is controlling him. Tactics say that the swarm is ejected with the host dies. I ran that when Pendleton went into negatives, nothing happened to indicate that, as he was already unconscious with a controlling host that wouldn't exit until he was dead dead. How do/did/will other people handle that?

I only played the scenario, didn't read/GM it. But if it says that he's unconscious and being controlled, then I'd think the swarm wouldn't care if he went into negative HP. He was already unconscious, so nothing's changed from the swarm's perspective until he's totally dead.

Dark Archive 4/5 *

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I had the cyberplasm exit the body when the party sorcerer cast deeper slumber on him - creative, non-violent solution yay! Also get to infest the PCs! Maybe I am an easy GM, but I want the party to succeed as long as they put in the thought and effort and don't just go all murder hobo on everything they see.

Silver Crusade 4/5

CigarPete wrote:
I had the cyberplasm exit the body when the party sorcerer cast deeper slumber on him - creative, non-violent solution yay! Also get to infest the PCs! Maybe I am an easy GM, but I want the party to succeed as long as they put in the thought and effort and don't just go all murder hobo on everything they see.

My party went murderhobo and lost that prestige point. Ironically, I was playing a sorcerer who is incapable of doing any direct HP damage, other than falling damage when people fall into my pits.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

MForey wrote:
That more or less seems to be the point. The kid is supposed to end up as an unfortunate casualty unless the party is lucky, good, or both, and that's exactly where the drama of the scenario is supposed to come from.

I really don't see why? It's pretty clear to the PC's that they are trying to rescue him, and the default action should be to deal nonlethal damage, (it's supposed to be clear that he is the BBEG).

Scarab Sages 4/5 *** Venture-Captain, Pennsylvania—Philadelphia

Jeff Merola wrote:
ChesterCopperpot wrote:
CigarPete wrote:
ChesterCopperpot wrote:

Two questions:

1) PC's should be using Knowledge: engineering (not Knowledge: arcana) to figure out anything about the clockworks and the cyberplasm, correct? I don't think it lists this anywhere in the scenario, but that's my understanding based on the Technology Guide information from the PRD.

2) Is there actually a way to repair the hazard crate? The conclusion suggests it is possible, but I don't see any more information about it.

Knowledge Engineering is the appropriate skill.

There is a Knowledge Engineering check to know that the crate needs specific parts to be repaired. Presumably those are supplied off-screen at the conclusion as I don't believe they are included in the scenario anywhere.

Thanks!

One (hopefully final) question, to make sure I'm doing this right:
On the constructs, elemental damage is reduced by hardness, but it is NOT halved before hardness is applied, correct?

(Elemental damage is halved on objects, the constructs are creatures?)

Here's a thread about that.

Ah, thanks. I was looking in the rules forum.

Shadow Lodge

DM Beckett wrote:
I really don't see why? It's pretty clear to the PC's that they are trying to rescue him, and the default action should be to deal nonlethal damage, (it's supposed to be clear that he is the BBEG).

Granted, but standard BBEG tactics (rush and kill the leader with your best abilities and/or spells, then loot the body), aren't going to work on the plasm without also killing Pendleton. The discrepancy in HPs pretty much assures that you're going to have to get creative for the "good end." I consider subdual to be one way to get creative; in the course of a regular scenario, a lot of players I've seen never reach for that -4 unless the situation demands it. Send into negatives, stabilize one or more survivors, heal, and interrogate, now that's a different story.

Lunar Sloth wrote:
With Pendleton's possession, it says that he is treated as unconscious and that the swarm is controlling him. Tactics say that the swarm is ejected with the host dies. I ran that when Pendleton went into negatives, nothing happened to indicate that, as he was already unconscious with a controlling host that wouldn't exit until he was dead dead. How do/did/will other people handle that?

I'll agree that it's not clear what's supposed to happen if he hits negatives. If the effect was a straight copy of magic jar sans the magic, I'd say that the plasm gets to enjoy a few rounds of its host being unconscious.

My plan is to play it to where aggressive PCs at least get a visual warning: the infestation has supplanted his brain but not his body functions. When the host hits negatives, the body still shuts down. Since the plasm does have a limited control over organic matter in general, it can continue "operating" the host body but with less efficiency. In short, it's staggered until the host is healed or dies, similar to what the Diehard feat would allow. That's my take, anyway.

If you rule that it comes out when the host is unconscious and dying as opposed to dead, how the end of the scenario plays out also depends on how you interpret being ejected "into any space adjacent to the creature" with a 10x10 footprint to place and a subtype that can share its space with any other creature. Leaving the host can potentially be as deadly as trying to possess one.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

MForey wrote:
DM Beckett wrote:
I really don't see why? It's pretty clear to the PC's that they are trying to rescue him, and the default action should be to deal nonlethal damage, (it's supposed to be clear that he is the BBEG).
Granted, but standard BBEG tactics (rush and kill the leader with your best abilities and/or spells, then loot the body), aren't going to work on the plasm without also killing Pendleton. The discrepancy in HPs pretty much assures that you're going to have to get creative for the "good end." I consider subdual to be one way to get creative; in the course of a regular scenario, a lot of players I've seen never reach for that -4 unless the situation demands it. Send into negatives, stabilize one or more survivors, heal, and interrogate, now that's a different story.

I guess I just don't see that as standard BBEG tactics when the stated and repeated goal is to rescue the kid, and it's pretty clear something is "infecting" him.

As for it being unclear if the swarm can continue to control his body if he is knocked out, I think the important part is that it doesn't have any special ability to do so. It does have an ability to control a still living host, and also to construct something from a dead body, but not one that allow it to act while unconscious. And there is no good reason for it to continue to stay there if it's helpless, as that prevents it from it's mission, (not that the PC's would know this).

Shadow Lodge

DM Beckett wrote:
I guess I just don't see that as standard BBEG tactics when the stated and repeated goal is to rescue the kid, and it's pretty clear something is "infecting" him.

I'd like to agree, but the fact that we've got two case examples in this thread alone of the PCs dealing enough lethal damage to send the host into negatives somewhat proves the point. The PCs can and may miss the clues (and the point) or simply draw a blank when it comes time to figure out how to be rid of the plasm. If they approach this scenario like it's a mop-up operation against anything remotely hostile, the kid dies and the PCs get a well-deserved slap for it, it's as simple as that.

The conclusion the PCs should draw isn't exactly rocket science, but it does demand a different approach than would be afforded to the usual fare: Aspis agents, evil cultists, beasts on rampage, etc. That's all I meant by it.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

My pc's brought him to 1, and then swung in for 23 damage. Even split between the two it made it a non-issue.

Silver Crusade 4/5

MForey wrote:
DM Beckett wrote:
I guess I just don't see that as standard BBEG tactics when the stated and repeated goal is to rescue the kid, and it's pretty clear something is "infecting" him.

I'd like to agree, but the fact that we've got two case examples in this thread alone of the PCs dealing enough lethal damage to send the host into negatives somewhat proves the point. The PCs can and may miss the clues (and the point) or simply draw a blank when it comes time to figure out how to be rid of the plasm. If they approach this scenario like it's a mop-up operation against anything remotely hostile, the kid dies and the PCs get a well-deserved slap for it, it's as simple as that.

The conclusion the PCs should draw isn't exactly rocket science, but it does demand a different approach than would be afforded to the usual fare: Aspis agents, evil cultists, beasts on rampage, etc. That's all I meant by it.

Yup. I kinda knew while playing that we should probably try to find a way to help the kid, though I had no idea what that way would be. But I was playing with a bloodthirsty party, and my character is chaotic neutral, so I didn't go out of my way to stop them. If I'd been playing some of my other PCs who are more focused on doing good, I probably would have stopped them and pointed out that we should probably try to find a way to save him. Instead, we lost the prestige point by killing him.

4/5 5/55/5 **

thistledown wrote:
My pc's brought him to 1, and then swung in for 23 damage. Even split between the two it made it a non-issue.

When my PCs broke zero on him, he dropped to -8, which would've made it difficult for him to survive.

As for the comment that there is nothing allowing the swarm to continue controlling him while he's unconscious, the monster description specifically states that Pendleton is treated as unconscious while infested and that the swarm is only ejected when the host dies. This makes me feel as though dropping Pendleton unconscious again won't change how the swarm effects him, as he already gained that condition.

Shadow Lodge 3/5

Lunar Sloth wrote:
And they need to have the Technologist feat, or they must make the skill check untrained.

I'm not sure if the Technologist feat is required for PFS. If you look at #06-01 there is an NPC who can attempt to identify technological items using Knowledge Engineering even without the Technologist feat.

I plan on mentioning the feat to my tables and asking my VC about needing this feat. If it is needed I don't plan on enforcing it for about a month since it doesn't seem fair to punish players by introducing all this cool new tech but not let them know what it does since they don't have a specific feat in a book that just came out. And PFS is run often enough where I live that it is highly likely that players can gain enough xp to get access to a new feat and pick that one up if they want to identify items.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

I don't know. I don't have the book, and really have no interest in buying it. Robots are Constructs, which already falls under the purview of Know Arcana, so as far as I'm concerned, said feat would allows you to also use Know Engineering for that purpose.

Arcana (ancient mysteries, magic traditions, arcane symbols, constructs, dragons, magical beasts)

Grand Lodge 4/5

DM Beckett wrote:

I don't know. I don't have the book, and really have no interest in buying it. Robots are Constructs, which already falls under the purview of Know Arcana, so as far as I'm concerned, said feat would allows you to also use Know Engineering for that purpose.

Arcana (ancient mysteries, magic traditions, arcane symbols, constructs, dragons, magical beasts)

The problem is that the book says this:

Quote:

Knowledge (arcana): Although robots are constructs, Knowledge (arcana) cannot be used to identify robots or their abilities and weaknesses.

Knowledge (engineering): This is the most important skill with regard to technological subjects. Knowledge (engineering) can be used to identify a robot's abilities and weaknesses. Knowledge (engineering) is also used to identify and understand unknown technological objects in a similar manner to how Spellcraft is used to identify the properties of a magic item. The DC to correctly identify and understand an unknown technological object is equal to the object's Craft DC.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Sounds like that crap in 3.5 with Psicraft and Know Psionics. . .

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Dang. Did I say that out loud.

Grand Lodge 4/5

DM Beckett wrote:
Sounds like that crap in 3.5 with Psicraft and Know Psionics. . .

Except worse, because 3.5 didn't require a feat before you could put ranks into Psicraft and Knowledge (Psionics).

Sczarni 3/5

I'm prepping this now to run it twice this weekend; is it me or are these fights pretty brutal?

At tier 6-7 the first fight (the gearsmen) have 24 AC, 50hp, +10 AB with 1d8+16+1d6 damage, on top of construct traits AND hardness (better than DR?), never mind the ability to self-heal as a full-round for 24 hp... Times 4?? If they work together or if the party doesn't have electricity damage they can easily take out the party's front-liner an rout the rest.

Thoughts?

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Central Europe

Yes, they are incredibly brutal. I just run this for a full table of lvl 6-7 and they had to use everything they got to push through.

Some thoughts on GMing the encounter:
Don't focus all attacks on 1 character unless you want people to die or have an extremely strong group that can handle that.
Give the party a chance to retreat if they notice they are outmatched; the construct's duty is guarding the entrance not hunting fleeing people through the streets.
The adventure is set in Absalom, so the party should be able to regroup and buy stuff (hopefully adamantine weapons/ammo and some scrolls with electricity spells).
Since there is a high chance the party cannot identify their abilities, the first time a construct has 24+ damage it spends a full-round action to heal itself, this lowers their total damage output and shows the party that they can do that, so they hopefully start concentrating damage at 1 target at a time.

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