Welcome to the dark side.


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Grand Lodge

So you've taken the jump off the slippery slope, gave in to the dark voices in your head or just simply decided that you rather like kicking puppies.

However you came about it you're now on a one way ticket to Hell. So pull up a chair next to the Pit Fiend or get to know the local Balor, chances are they'll be getting to know you.

In games sometimes you start with an idea for a PC, maybe you're a swash buckling rouge with a golden heart or a shinning beacon of mortality that is a paladin. However along the way you've come to realize you aren't quite the man/woman you thought you were, maybe you rather like the shinny shinny gold everyone keeps thrusting at you or maybe you just lacked the conviction to stick with your morals. So maybe you decided to take a trip over to Neutral and might have overshot by a genocide or five and now your holding some poor sap over the hot coals or flaying him alive with a rusty teaspoon. Whoops.

So lets share some tips about how to successfully roleplay the jolly traitor, sure he's going to stab you in the back but man...

You're in for a hell of a ride!

Liberty's Edge

The big thing about playing an evil character is to be sure the rest of the group is ok with it. If you have a good cleric/paladin/other in the group and you pick Paul ravener of time and defiler of all that is holy then you are not being a good player.

If the group is ok then enjoy, remember evel does have allies so don't back stab them until it's really important. Bad we put up with the emeror for a long time, when the time was right he betrayed but until that point he took orders and helped.

Being evil can be fun, just don't be a jerk to the other players.


Being a villainous party is all about the group ethic. When you're one man against the world, you will lose one hundred percent of the time. But an evil party has the cooperation and teamwork that can move mountains. They key thing to establish with an evil party is that, while you're out for you and yours, you're not out for anyone else. Your party are the people you care about, the people you risk your life for, or at least the few people in the world you're able to tolerate. In fact, that's the best part about being a villain. Heroes have all these restrictions. "No working with demons," "Never cut a deal with drows," "You can't help him, he's trying to poison the city." Villain's are equal-opportunity employers. Want to conquer the world? Let's make it a group effort. Want to save the orphanage? Great, the orphans will make a fine workforce once they've been trained properly. Anyone and everyone is perfectly qualified to work for the villains, so long as they know how to follow orders and are willing to accept the paycheck.

The big thing about far-reaching evil ends is that they require a pretty huge number of good means to bring about. The world doesn't just run itself. Critical infrastructure is necessary to keep society turning. Roads need to be maintained, businesses need to be run, trade needs to take place, laws need to be passed and enforced, the people need to believe that society's laws will protect them from each other. As a villain, you need to make sure all of these things are taken care of or else your whole operation is going to collapse in on itself. Thing is, all of these things have a tendency to create a whole lot of jobs, generate a whole bunch of money and make a lot of people feel a lot more secure about getting up in the morning.

Anyone can just stab a bunch of people in the streets. Everyone has the qualifications to be a murderer or a traitor or a crime-lord. True, deep and systemic villainy requires a rare breed to people that tend to become player characters. True villainy is often benign, generally decentralized, and almost always has the side-effect of making a lot of people's lives better.

So, the best advice I can give is that true heroes are pretty much the only people qualified to be proper villains.


I DM'd a campaign, turned session, that started out with a ranger who's favored enemy was Undead. One other PC was playing an undead evil cleric. I warned the lich that it's not a good idea. I was so short on PC's that he refused to play unless he could be that, so I let him. Well, it only lasted so long before the halfling ranger hooked his pick into the lich's spiked chain and with his good hand crit and snapped the lich's spine in twain. He was so mad that he spent, like, two hours building the character. I warned him.

The ranger thought it was good fun.

Morale: Totally agree with Falcar. Watch out who you party with. Because you might end up loosing your character faster than you can summon your eidolon.


This message brought to you from the Lawful Evil part of my brain (which may or may not be a controlling portion, depending on whom you ask and the alignment effect variables of caffeine & alcohol).
So, from an LE POV...

I find your initial post confusing… your subject header speaks of coming to the Dark Side...

Balancer wrote:
In games sometimes you start with an idea for a PC, maybe you're a swash buckling rouge with a golden heart or a shinning beacon of mortality that is a paladin. However along the way you've come to realize you aren't quite the man/woman you thought you were, maybe you rather like the shinny shinny gold everyone keeps thrusting at you or maybe you just lacked the conviction to stick with your morals.

So, you are speaking to or of failures. Those who lacked conviction or inner strength.

Balancer wrote:
So maybe you decided to take a trip over to Neutral and might have overshot by a genocide or five

… and apparently those who seek mediocrity and yet have accidentally achieved a monumental task a time or five…

Balancer wrote:
and now your holding some poor sap over the hot coals or flaying him alive with a rusty teaspoon. Whoops.

… and apparently those who also lack the tools to achieve proper results…

Balancer wrote:

So lets share some tips about how to successfully roleplay the jolly traitor, sure he's going to stab you in the back but man...

You're in for a hell of a ride!

… and apparently also lacks the strength of character to either choose proper allies or the inability to mask their motives so that any fool can see that they are soon to be discarded.

In short, you seem to lack any perspective on the dark side.

We are those who know how to decide and commit ourselves to a task with our whole being and a strength of will that few of the fools who call themselves "heroes" can conceive. We are willing to accept the consequences of our actions, knowing that the sacrifices we make (both of ourselves and of others) is ultimately worth securing our goals in the end.

While we use the tools we must to accomplish our goals, it does not mean that we do not value allies to our cause – in fact, we likely have a far greater appreciation for true allies than any “heroes” as those who have proven themselves to hold value by OUR standards have accomplished a far more strenuous task than many of the “tavern friends” which go on to become “heroes”.

Few of us, I will admit, began our path with the strength of conviction we now hold. For many it was forged by watching the wrongful ideals and sentiments molded by weakness shatter under the relentless press of the true world in which we live. We CHOSE to reforge ourselves stronger and better than we began, an often painful choice. As a child must often put aside their childish things to grow into maturity, so too did we choose to set aside childish morality and grow into conviction and purpose.

-TimD

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