Imperious Bloodline - Heroic Echo. Would these stack if multiple Sorcerer's used it?


Rules Questions


I'm currently playing an Imperious Bloodline Sorcerer and I'm considering the Leadership feat. What I am wondering is if I was to recruit another Imperious Bloodline Sorcerer would we both be able to enhance morale (and later competence) bonuses with the Heroic Echo ability? i.e. Would these additional bonuses stack from multiple sorcerers?

The ability affects Morale and Competence bonuses but it does not state that the additional bonus is specifically of that type, it merely states that there is an additional bonus due to the ability.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines -from-paizo/racial-bloodlines/imperious-bloodline-sorcerer-human


I'm not sure I exactlty understand your question, but I believe the answer is no.

I believe you question is that if there are two Imperious Bloodline Sorcerers and you both use Heroic Echo, will you benefit from it?

The answer is no, because the ability increases the effective morale (and competence bonuns at level 9) by 1. However, it does not change the bonus type. So they are still morale or competence bonuses.

Secondly, bonuses from the same source never stack. So, if you ally shared a morale bonus with you that way enhanced by the Heroic Echo ability your Heroic Echo ability could not enhance it as it is the same bonus source (Heroic Echo).


Okay, explain the question:

Heroic Echo (Su): At 3rd level, when you receive a morale bonus from any spell, spell-like ability, or magic item, including those you cast on yourself, that bonus increases by +1. At 9th level, this ability also applies to competence bonuses.

So +1 to Morale/Competence Bonuses.

If you receive a morale effect (or a competence effect at 9th level) that affects an area or multiple targets, as an immediate action you can share your increased bonus with all other recipients. This increase to other participants lasts a number of rounds equal to your Charisma bonus.

Now here is the source of the question: Hypothetically Bard 'a' casts Heroism which gives a +2 morale bonus on attack rolls, saves, and skill checks.
Imperious Sorcerers 'b' and 'c' boost that bonus innately by +1 (so +3 for them) and can share their +1 using heroic echo to each other and the bard, so is this +4 for the sorcerers (their own +3 plus the +1 from the other sorcerer) and the bard getting +2 for the spell and two additional sets of +1's (which may or may not stack) for the bard?

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

I mean, it's an untyped INCREASE to a bonus type, so yes, those would actually stack and increase the morale bonuses by even more. Here's how I interpret the situation:

Bard casts Heroism, +2 morale bonus on attack rolls, saves, and skill checks for himself and the two Sorcerers.

Sorcerer A starts with a +3 morale bonus on attack rolls, saves, and skill checks for himself thanks to his Heroic Echo ability. So does Sorcerer B.

Sorcerer A, as an immediate action, decides to share his Heroic Echo with his teammates, including the bard and Sorcerer B. Now the Bard is getting a +3 morale bonus on attack rolls, saves, and skill checks, and Sorcerer B is getting a +4 to all these things.

Sorcerer B, as an immediate action, decides to share HIS Heroic Echo with his teammates, including the bard and Sorcerer A. Now the Bard is getting a +4 to, Sorcerer A is getting a +4, and Sorcerer B still has his +4. You end up with a net +2 increase to the morale bonuses of the entire party. If you had a third Sorcerer, you'd have a net +3 increase, and so on.


strayshift wrote:


Heroic Echo (Su): At 3rd level, when you receive a morale bonus from any spell, spell-like ability, or magic item, including those you cast on yourself, that bonus increases by +1. At 9th level, this ability also applies to competence bonuses.

It isn't a typeless bonus, it is an increase to a bonus that is typed.

strayshift wrote:


If you receive a morale effect (or a competence effect at 9th level) that affects an area or multiple targets, as an immediate action you can share your increased bonus with all other recipients. This increase to other participants lasts a number of rounds equal to your Charisma bonus.

Given you are sharing your bonus (of whatever type it was, morale or competence), then the sharing is also of that type.

End result, they don't stack.
1) Because they are from the same source (heroic echo).
2) They are the same type (and are not dodge).

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

bbangerter wrote:
strayshift wrote:


Heroic Echo (Su): At 3rd level, when you receive a morale bonus from any spell, spell-like ability, or magic item, including those you cast on yourself, that bonus increases by +1. At 9th level, this ability also applies to competence bonuses.

It isn't a typeless bonus, it is an increase to a bonus that is typed.

strayshift wrote:


If you receive a morale effect (or a competence effect at 9th level) that affects an area or multiple targets, as an immediate action you can share your increased bonus with all other recipients. This increase to other participants lasts a number of rounds equal to your Charisma bonus.

Given you are sharing your bonus (of whatever type it was, morale or competence), then the sharing is also of that type.

End result, they don't stack.
1) Because they are from the same source (heroic echo).
2) They are the same type (and are not dodge).

Oh man, you're totally right! You're sharing your own increased bonus!

Ignore everything I wrote! ACK!


Okay that's Morale Bonuses, but what about Competence Bonuses?


Forget I asked that - just checked - highest only. There goes my 'chain of sorcerers' idea!


Yes, I understood the question correctly then. Though, my grammar was pretty bad in spots in my first post. I'm always bad at proof reading my posts.

In any event, as I stated before and bbangerter reiterated, you cannot enhance the shared bonus again with Heroic Echo as the bonus has already been enhanced by it. And bonuses from the same source (even if they're not the same type, though they are in this case) don't stack.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Imperious Bloodline - Heroic Echo. Would these stack if multiple Sorcerer's used it? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.