Hey everyone, long-time Pathfinder player, first-time messageboard poster!
So, A friend of mine is wanting to run his first proper campaign, and I have convinced him that the shiny new version of Rise of the Runelords is a fantastic way to cut his teeth. There is, however, a bit of a premium on players around where I live, so there will only be three of us in the party.
Really, I don't think that will be a problem. The issue, sadly, is with me. See, I have a horrible tendency to over-optimize characters until they just aren't super fun, either for myself or the other party members who aren't playing horribly broken death machines. So... I am making a proper effort to not do this.
So, instead of the Dervish Dancer Magus I had lined up, I am instead thinking of running a sword'n'board Paladin. It isn't SUPER feat intensive to hit Shield Mastery, so it gives me a lot of wriggle room to do some fun things with the character, and not needing a bunch of the extra TWF feats for damage due to Smite means I won't be feeling too underpowered.
The other two party members are a Four Winds Monk and probably a Switch-Hitter Ranger. I'd like a bit of advice on building my tanky Paladin to be a solid combat character without being the sort of horribly broken thing that I usually play!
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So far, I have:
lvl 1, Human Paladin, 15 point-buy
13, 15, 12, 10, 10, 15
//Nothing under 10, so clearly not min-maxing whatsoever there...//
Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Shield Bash
//gives me a shield bash attack, both hitting at +0//
My feat plan so far:
lvl 3: Squire (Gives us an extra body on the field, not certain yet as to class)
lvl 5: ?
lvl 7: Shield Slam
lvl 9: ?
lvl 11: Shield Master
I'll be running with a longsword and light shield - the former because it is thematically appropriate for a Paladin of Iomedae, and the latter because I like being able to use LOH in combat.
The TWF Shield Master feat chain will steal your life.
Not that I am telling you Sword+Board is a bad style, but the paladin class simply doesn't have the resources to fully use it without sacrificing options.
You will get a lot more mileage from taking Power Attack, ans investing more in STR. You will have exactly zero fun making a bunch of attacks that never hit, barely do damage, and everyone else at the table will get annoyed that you are wasting space, trust me this will happen.
14 12 14 10 8 14 <-- This array will get you a lot better results in game, and I did not include your free +2, which should probably go in either STR or CHA.
Carry a shield, 100% you should still carry a shield, but don't use it unless the thing you are fighting is really really strong.
Being tanky means you either want to pick up Fey Foundling (which will be useless until next level) or Toughness.
Depends on what books are allowed.
The TWF Shield Master feat chain will steal your life.
Not that I am telling you Sword+Board is a bad style, but the paladin class simply doesn't have the resources to fully use it without sacrificing options.You will get a lot more mileage from taking Power Attack, ans investing more in STR. You will have exactly zero fun making a bunch of attacks that never hit, barely do damage, and everyone else at the table will get annoyed that you are wasting space, trust me this will happen.
14 12 14 10 8 14 <-- This array will get you a lot better results in game, and I did not include your free +2, which should probably go in either STR or CHA.
Carry a shield, 100% you should still carry a shield, but don't use it unless the thing you are fighting is really really strong.
Being tanky means you either want to pick up Fey Foundling (which will be useless until next level) or Toughness.
Depends on what books are allowed.
See, I consider the Paladin to be rather good at doing the whole shield bashing thing - the attack bonus from Smite more than makes up for the rather small dual-wielding penalty, and making more smites every turn is certainly a good thing. Of course, this only helps against big nasties that I have declared a smite against, but those are the fights where it really matters. This build is a bit light on strength though, I might end up breaking my own little self-imposed rule about no stats under 10. Either that, or convincing the DM to let us use a 20-point buy since there are only three of us!
See, I consider the Paladin to be rather good at doing the whole shield bashing thing - the attack bonus from Smite more than makes up for the rather small dual-wielding penalty, and making more smites every turn is certainly a good thing. Of course, this only helps against big nasties that I have declared a smite against, but those are the fights where it really matters. This build is a bit light on strength though, I might end up breaking my own little self-imposed rule about no stats under 10. Either that, or convincing the DM to let us use a 20-point buy since there are only three of us!The TWF Shield Master feat chain will steal your life.
Not that I am telling you Sword+Board is a bad style, but the paladin class simply doesn't have the resources to fully use it without sacrificing options.You will get a lot more mileage from taking Power Attack, ans investing more in STR. You will have exactly zero fun making a bunch of attacks that never hit, barely do damage, and everyone else at the table will get annoyed that you are wasting space, trust me this will happen.
14 12 14 10 8 14 <-- This array will get you a lot better results in game, and I did not include your free +2, which should probably go in either STR or CHA.
Carry a shield, 100% you should still carry a shield, but don't use it unless the thing you are fighting is really really strong.
Being tanky means you either want to pick up Fey Foundling (which will be useless until next level) or Toughness.
Depends on what books are allowed.
You will run out of smites way too fast, and tanking requires more HP or you will simply die.
Remember you only get one smite at 1st level, which means you will be useless against that second enemy.
EDIT: Also, stats without dipping under 10
14 10 14 10 10 14
Still have yet to place that +2, recommendation is to STR.
Alright, talked the GM into giving us 20-point buy (which is nice, since there is only three players), and he also decided to simply give us max HP/level, so having a high Con is not as important. I am still really keen on trying the shield bash build, and with the extra points to play with it feels somewhat more realistic an option!
Focusing on ramping up the Str, this gives me:
16, 15, 13, 8, 10, 15
I figure taking ONE stat under 10 isn't too bad, and it down to only 8 instead of 7, so I don't feel particularly bad about this.
My attack is now either +4 as a standard attack or +2/+2 when shield bashing, so MUCH nicer numbers there. I also have the option of simply putting the shield away and using the longsword two-handed, though the earliest I will likely take Power Attack is likely level 5, but at low levels there are generally very few enemies who are tough enough to really require the massive hits - and those that do, well, that is what my daily smite is for.
Handily enough, the GM also has no issues with me taking the Squire feat at level 3, which should provide quite a nice boost for the party if only to provide a flanking bonus and an extra activation. Still thinking of building a magus for that, as not having an arcane caster whatsoever in the party is almost unbearable.
Alright, I have most of this guy built, and on paper at least it seems to be reasonable. Not really sure about traits for him, is Reactionary really necessary for this sort of character?
Mechanically speaking, there is no difference between an 8 INT and a 7 INT, you are cutting yourself short by only dropping it to 8.
WIS is a much better score to dip on paladins because you already have good will saves and divine grace.
The TWF Shield bash route will make your character not fun to play, of this I can promise.
Alright, I am convinced. But how is 7 the same as 8? 7 gives -2 to skill checks, 8 gives -1
The Paladin only gets 2 skill points per level. If you reduce that to 0 it bumps back to 1.
Extra skills from being a Human or taking your Favored Class are applied after that modification so there's no difference in how many skills you get in the end.