I am super keen for this.
So, the feat "Blessed Striker" for Paladins - what does it do?
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Please, PLEASE tell me there is an option for "Hamster" in there. Or rather, "miniature giant space hamster". Really, the class wouldn't be complete without it.
Really interested to see how this will play. My wife is going to roll one up for a Rise of the Runelords game we will be starting in a couple of weeks, and I think she is going to LOVE the new changes
I have not yet gotten around to that one yet - shall probably start on that one tomorrow night. Ah, the joys of working nights with long stretches of free time. It's not as enjoyable as it sounds, boredom is my constant enemy.
Whelp, I now have another thread to keep a close eye on. I haven't ever played WotR, so unlike the RotR campaign journal, everything that happens here is going to be new and exciting!
I think that, while the latter would be rather nice, it probably wouldn't be very fitting with the size and prestige that the order has - or rather, the lack thereof. Rather, I think it would be one of the newer orders, formed out of a disparate group of dissatisfied paladins, and those who supported their views, from several different orders. Loving the Order of the Sewer, it is fantastic!
My free time, where has it gone? I am suspecting that you are not entirely sane, actually... But I am okay with that, because it provides me with such entertainment! I'm thinking I might do a campaign journal myself, from the point of view of my character. Bah, these messageboards are such a bad influence on me!
Well, it's a bit sad that I came by it right as it was ending, but I am glad I stumbled across it! I think I shall bookmark it, and use it as a benchmark for both roleplaying and DMing. I shall have to now start on the WotR thread... My free time, where has it gone?
Hah, goblin Hellknights. FANTASTIC! I have had a "d'oh" moment - I forgot to put up either the favoured weapon or the reckoning for the Order of the Scale!
I have only just come across this a few days ago, and have been enthralled by the whole tale. I have played through most of RotR a few years back, and a newly-minted GM will be starting up his own game for my local group in a few weeks. I am going to be linking him this thread and telling him it is "necessary reading"! This has been nothing short of utterly fantastic, and has provided me with a slew of great ideas for characters and scenarios. I look forward to reading more!
Thanks! I've been toying with the idea of rolling up a Paladin of Sarenrae/Hellknight, but none of the existing orders seemed like a good fit, despite how fantastic the RP potential of such a character would have. Seriously, though... Order of the Sewer? This I /gotta/ hear about
Hey all,
The concept began along the lines of: "What sort of lesser order would paladins of faiths other than Iomedae be drawn to?", and came up with the Order of the Scales. So, may I humbly present: Order of the Scales A small order, with fewer than 100 active Hellknights, the Order of the Scales are firm believers in the ideal of allowing transgressors to repent their sins. It is their belief (and one that has gotten little more than a knowing look by the mysterious members of the church of Pharasma) that when one commits a sin against his fellows - in effect, by breaking the laws - then he has put himself into the debt of society, and marked his soul. In order for the law-breaker to repay this debt (usually referred to as “balancing the scales”) and to erase this mark so as to find peace in the afterlife, he must work until he has made amends. Thus, Hellknights of this order are loathe to use deadly force unless necessary, or against a foe that is utterly unrepentant of the heinous crimes and evils it has committed. Though this preference for arresting criminals and requesting service to the community as punishment is often derided by other orders, one should not mistake the Order of the Scales for being any more merciful or compassionate than any other. Even the smallest infraction of law is seen as something to be punished, and they are relentless in their pursuits. Most often, they target banditry and corruption, which generally means that most of the order is constantly on the move, following rumours of such things across the Inner Sea region. Though nominally based at Castle Dunnarc in the northern Menador Mountains of Cheliax, in truth the small fort is usually only home to a few active Hellknights at a time, along with their Armigers and the various servants and slaves that are always found in such places. In keeping with their doctrine, only those who have been sentenced to slavery due to properly recorded and convicted crimes will be found in service to the Order of the Scale - slavemasters who have attempted to sell kidnapped men and women from other lands have swiftly felt the wrath of the Hellknights.
Paladins are relatively common in the ranks of the Order of the Scale, especially ones that follow the teachings of Abadar, though those who worship Sarenrae and Iomedae also are represented.
I have no problem with dump stats, as there are mechanical disadvantages to doing so. Hell, I think I am by far the most munchkin person in our local gaming group, and I break out in hives any time I attempt to drop a stat below a -1... and this is AFTER racial modifiers! Of course, this may also be a reflection on how our games tend to be structured. RP is quite prevalent, and not playing to your stats is rather frowned upon. That said, an 8 or 9 doesn't exactly mean someone is horribly unlikeable - they might be a bit shy, they might have an annoying laugh, they might simply be a bit of a grump. It isn't until you start hitting modifiers of -2 that much more noticeable effects start coming into play. The same really can be said for the physical abilities, but they also generally have a much more noticeable impact on combat, and thus are much easier to see - and the effects of negative modifiers tends to be far more noticeable.
Alright, cheers. I rather doubted that BAB, skill ranks or CL would rise in that way, but I wasn't really certain. With that in mind, I would assume that the headband idea would probably work in the latter manner - based on actual HD. However, I think I'd house-rule the Int score rule in favour of simply using whatever is better, since there is already a precedent set for such things in the skill ranks. And really, why would becoming a familiar suddenly make something dumber? Either way, it would be nice for this particular issue to get errata'd.
Alright, after trawling the forums for answers to a bunch of different questions I had about how Improved Familiars work and either coming up squat or simply unclear, I thought I'd put together a single thread to cover them all. For the purposes of examples, I'll be using a Lyrakien familiar, because why not. I'll also be pulling all quotes from the SRD, because it is WAY easier to simply copy + paste. So, here we go: 1) BAB.
Spoiler:
This one actually technically covers normal familiars as well, which line takes precedence? A familiar is an animal chosen by a spellcaster to aid him in his study of magic. It retains the appearance, Hit Dice, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats of the normal animal it once was Or Attacks: Use the master's base attack bonus, as calculated from all his classes. Now, a Lyrakien has a full BAB, but does not actually level in a normal sense. However, the line; Hit Dice: For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master's character level or the familiar's normal HD total, whichever is higher. Is not particularly clear on WHAT effects that covers. Is it just spell effects, or does it encompass things such as BAB, skill ranks, etc? 2)Skills.
Spoiler:
Now, this one is a bit more hazy than the BAB question. Now, the way I read this;
Means that I basically use a "whichever is better" rule of thumb when it comes to skill ranks, gaining bonuses for both the standard familiar class skills and the lyrakien's own class skills. Easy enough. However, how does a familiar GAIN new skill ranks? Does it pick new ones up whenever its master gains a level, or does it only gain them through increases to its Intelligence? 3)Intelligence.
Spoiler:
Now this one is a doozy. RAW, it appears that becoming a familiar actually makes most of the Improved Familiars DUMBER, as there is no rule explicitly stating that they don't use that part of the familiar progression table. However, I believe in 3.5 there WAS a rule that basically said "use whichever is higher", and a precedent for this can be seen in how the skill ranks work. However, as far as I know this has never been addressed in an errata, so which interpretation is RAI? Personally I would support the "whichever is better" camp, but I have no idea if that is correct. 4)Saving Throws.
Spoiler:
Saving Throws: For each saving throw, use either the familiar's base save bonus (Fortitude +2, Reflex +2, Will +0) or the master's (as calculated from all his classes), whichever is better. The familiar uses its own ability modifiers to saves, and it doesn't share any of the other bonuses that the master might have on saves. Now, this seems to work the same as skill ranks (use whichever is higher for each one), but a Lyrakien has Reflex and Will as its high saves. Do we use those, or do they change over to Fort and Ref? 5) Caster Level.
Spoiler:
This is a smaller one that ties into the "what effects from higher HD does a familiar get"; does the CL - and thus effects from SLAs - increase as the master gains levels? I'm hoping to get enough community feedback so to understand how most people use these rules - it is hard to go wrong by following the general consensus, after all.
*actually looks at dates*
Slightly off topic on the RP side of things, but if there is no mention of the reckonongs requirement in the actual listing of the prestige class in the Inner Sea World Guide. Is this then a optional rule, or has the class changed between the guide and CoT?
Extra LoH are always a handy thing to have. Not really keen on having such a low Wis due to Will saves, though starting second level you get massive bonuses from your Cha mod. Still, I'd personally shave a point from it to shore up your Wis. Power attack is, of course, utterly fantastic. I would try and squeeze Furious Focus in there somewhere, as with a not-fantastic strength score you will be needing the help on your attack rolls.
Unless someone uses mechanics, they don't gain a mechanical benefit in combat. I'm all for granting circumstantial bonuses in RP situations outside of combat, though
Well, in this case it is explicitly stated in the rules that in order to gain the benefit of the ability, you much be able to reach a vital spot. So, in this case if a rogue wishes to gain the benefits of sneak attack, then they would have to actually roll on skills - for instance, acrobatics to swing up and latch onto the giant's belt.
We will have one of the shiny new hunters, and something else - perhaps the new fighter/monk hybrid thing.
I am already planning on getting my grubby mitts on as many low-level Pearls of Power as I can find - perhaps I shall make them into a pretty necklace?
Well, considering the rather unfortunate side-effects that you get when looking at stuff that is higher level than you are, I consider it to not be too unreasonable. Hell, it is a level-0 spell on some spell lists
Arcane Accuracy was my first port of call when it came to choosing arcanas - it is just plain fantastic. Speaking of, I have updated both it and my feat plan: FEAT PROGRESSION
ARCANA PROGRESSION
I have replaced the level six ability to cast a spell with a free Empower 1/day with an early Spell Blending - Protection from Evil is a nice little bonus to my survivability, but it is Touch of Fatigue that really did it - a level 0 touch spell. Hell, causing the target to take a save or suck from it is actually just a secondary thought - this is a spell that will likely see some serious use against targets that I simply don't need to blow a spell slot on to kill. If I go with third party spells, I could instead go with Touch of Lethargy, which is rather nice in that it causes stagger.
Hmm, what would be the most effective damage type to set with that? Basically, what do things that are immune to electricity NOT usually also immune to?
On the other hand, being able to punch through SR like it isn't there and free metamagic has a MUCH more impressive effect on Vamp touch, and will not let me down against things that are immune to electricity
You can only take spell perfection once, and as for the one trick thing... really you haven't don't forget you have an entire spell list of things to do. Oh damn, right you are. Hmm, I am now at a loss as to which spell to add it to - though Shocking Grasp is one hell of a strong contender due to it being 10d6 for a level 1 slot...
Personal opinion: you've built a one-trick pony. You will be at a severe disadvantage in fights where that one trick fails. Well, between Shocking Grasp and Vampiric Touch I should cover pretty much all my bases, and my boosting of my ability to penetrate SR should definitely make sure my hits count. I am even able to keep both spells unprepared and instead keep a nice variety of spells up my sleeve. My main issue, I think, is my rather pathetic attack modifier. I think I shall be making room for Accurate Strike in my Arcana selection - if all else fails, throwing these attacks against touch AC is a neat trick to help end fights quickly
A revised version of the above list: 3rd - Dervish Dance
I dropped Empower as it didn't really add a huge amount to the build, and it let me shift everything into an earlier slot. I put Shocking Grasp's Spell Perfection at 15, despite not having much to really make use of the free metamagic (well, I suppose I could heighten it, but that is not exactly useful in most situations). However, it most certainly has the most fantastic benefit of doubling the bonus given by the Spell Penetration feats, which should come in handy. At 17, I pick up both Quicken and Perfection on Vamp touch, so between the two spells I can double-cast them in combat all day, mixing and matching to suit my needs. I still have two free uses of maximize and one of Quicken from my Arcana, which I can use as needed, especially to quicken buff spells. 19 brings Maximize to the party, which gives me the rather nasty ability to quicken one spell then smash in with a maximized one... even after moving.
Alright, how does this look? 3rd - Dervish Dance
I am thinking of dropping Greater Weapon Focus in order to take Quicken Spell - the +4 to spell level makes it not particularly viable until I have Spell Perfection, and until then I still have a 1/day free use of it.
Ah - Another situation of me misreading feat text - I thought Empower worked by giving extra dice equal to half the number of total dice. This makes it a MUCH better metamagic than I thought!
A good point - I'm quite sold on preferred spell to allow me to cast it effectively spontaneously, but Spell Perfection seems to not really be necessary for it. On the other hand, I could take Spell Perfection on something like Vampiric Touch, and Maximise it for free. It is a fantastic spell to use either at the start of a combat you know is going to be damage heavy, or as an emergency save spell. Letting it punch through SR when you absolutely NEED it too is even better. I do have some feat slots in the higher levels open for weapon spec, but at that point in time a couple extra points of weapon damage isn't going to be a huge deal
Where are you getting the 15d6 of damage from? Closest I can tell is from incorrectly stacking Empowered Spell and Intensify Spell - as far as I know, each metamagic feat is applied separately to the base spell, so that can give a maximum of 12d6. Preferred spell is still an interesting choice, though needing that pre-req hurts a bit. I really don't agree with the metamagic arcanas being weak - they are FREE metamagic effects, though the Empowered one I took mostly because I didn't see anything better for that level, and it is a nice little bonus once a day.
Oh hey, I totally forgot about the counting half my level as fighter level - though I would probably be far better served by taking Greater Weapon Focus. Most of my damage comes from my spell combat after all, and that 3/4 BAB really hurts. I took reactionary because going first in combat is such a useful thing, though Clever Wordplay sounds like an incredibly useful thing to have
Hey everyone, thought I would share my newest build and put it out there. It mostly follows the tried-and-tested formulas, but I have made a few changes just to round the character out. He is picking up a little bit of 3rd party stuff - the GM is allowing pretty much anything on the SRD, but I have tried to keep such choices to a minimum. --------------- Elf Magus, level 1, 20 point buy 10, 18, 12, 17, 8, 10
1) RP. The idea of this guy is that he is unhealthily curious, and a poor Wis score reflects this. 2) The rest of the party are all using Cha as a dump stat - SOMEONE has to be the face-guy. Lastly, I don't want to min-max this guy too much - RP is important to me, and I'd rather not have to play someone who has 7 in both Wis and Cha... Feat:
Traits:
He is going to be going the Dervish Dance route, and simply using his backup short sword until he hits level 3 and picks up the feat. ------------------- Feat plan:
Arcana plan:
-------------------------
Ah, I probably was not super clear on that - only the Mirror Image is activated, the Blur is continuous. I didn't make a full set of math to create it, as it already is an item that exists - Cloak of Minor Displacement, 24,000gp.
Deleted the last post, my math was THAT BAD Okay, using the minimum CL for the mirror Image (4th for a Magus), a blurry cloak that allows for 3/day mirror image can be made for for: (24000 + 2*4*1800*1.5*3/5)/2 = 18,480gp This only nets me four rounds of Mirror Image, let's bump that up to five. Five is a nicer number than four, and anything longer is probably a waste. (24000 + 2*5*1800*1.5*3/5)/2 = 20,100gp But, just for completion's sake, how much WOULD the ten rounds of Mirror Image cost on this item? (24000 + 2*10*1800*1.5*3/5)/2 = 28,200gp Not a massive amount more - In fact, it would likely be worth it to simply save for a little longer. A defensive item of this nature is unlikely to be necessary before level ten in the first place, and by then I will be more than capable of affording it.
Of course, this would be a bit more expensive for this character to create, as he does not gain access to 2nd-level spells until level 4. Would that effect the creation of the cloak of displacement? RAW seems to indicate that it would not
Ah - I misread the "multiple different abilities" bit - my math is using the "multiple SIMILAR abilities" (which they are), but it goes on to say "that do NOT take up a slot". Of course, the "multiple DIFFERENT abilities" does not seem to fit for this either, as it mentions abilities that are wildly different. Which one should be used in this case? And I agree with the command word to activate - I assumed as much, but man the rules are not very clear on this
Alright, I've got an interesting one for you all tonight. Say I have a Magus that wants to craft an item to give himself both Blur and Mirror Image. But, being rather considerate of his not-infinite wallet (and the headache-inducing effect that it could have on his fellow adventurers whilst not in combat), he decides that instead of having this item function continuously, he wishes to make it use-activated for three times a day, each use lasting for ten rounds. The item will be a cloak, as a similar item (Minor Cloak of Displacement) is in this slot. So, the questions I have are: 1) Can an item with multiple abilities be set up in the format of
2) Can you choose to lower the caster level of the spell - for example, the Magus is level 15, but he only really needs 10 rounds of the effect per use, so can he create the item at CL 10? 3) Costing, assuming both of the above are true:
Each of the abilities individually cost the same as a Minor Cloak of Displacement, with the higher CL being offset by the 3/day limitation on the activation - so that seems about right. 4) Is activating this item a standard or a free action? The rules on this are a little on the vague side.
Of course, the absolute best defense a magus has available is it's offense. At level 12 you have access to the amazing Maximise arcana - stick the Spell Storing enchantment on your Scimitar, have it charged with Vampiric Touch, and release it on a crit with a free maximise! As long as you can punch through any spell resistance the target has, you are hitting for 72 points of life-stealing goodness plus whatever crit damage your weapon is pulling. If an opponent is dead, it isn't dealing you damage, and you have a nice buffer of hit points with which to shrug off his friend's counter-attack.
Alright, I am convinced. But how is 7 the same as 8? 7 gives -2 to skill checks, 8 gives -1
Alright, I have most of this guy built, and on paper at least it seems to be reasonable. Not really sure about traits for him, is Reactionary really necessary for this sort of character?
Alright, talked the GM into giving us 20-point buy (which is nice, since there is only three players), and he also decided to simply give us max HP/level, so having a high Con is not as important. I am still really keen on trying the shield bash build, and with the extra points to play with it feels somewhat more realistic an option! Focusing on ramping up the Str, this gives me: 16, 15, 13, 8, 10, 15 I figure taking ONE stat under 10 isn't too bad, and it down to only 8 instead of 7, so I don't feel particularly bad about this. My attack is now either +4 as a standard attack or +2/+2 when shield bashing, so MUCH nicer numbers there. I also have the option of simply putting the shield away and using the longsword two-handed, though the earliest I will likely take Power Attack is likely level 5, but at low levels there are generally very few enemies who are tough enough to really require the massive hits - and those that do, well, that is what my daily smite is for. Handily enough, the GM also has no issues with me taking the Squire feat at level 3, which should provide quite a nice boost for the party if only to provide a flanking bonus and an extra activation. Still thinking of building a magus for that, as not having an arcane caster whatsoever in the party is almost unbearable.
See, I consider the Paladin to be rather good at doing the whole shield bashing thing - the attack bonus from Smite more than makes up for the rather small dual-wielding penalty, and making more smites every turn is certainly a good thing. Of course, this only helps against big nasties that I have declared a smite against, but those are the fights where it really matters. This build is a bit light on strength though, I might end up breaking my own little self-imposed rule about no stats under 10. Either that, or convincing the DM to let us use a 20-point buy since there are only three of us!
This really seems like the GM has a hate-on for Paladins, and was determined to make you fall, no matter what.
Hey everyone, long-time Pathfinder player, first-time messageboard poster! So, A friend of mine is wanting to run his first proper campaign, and I have convinced him that the shiny new version of Rise of the Runelords is a fantastic way to cut his teeth. There is, however, a bit of a premium on players around where I live, so there will only be three of us in the party. Really, I don't think that will be a problem. The issue, sadly, is with me. See, I have a horrible tendency to over-optimize characters until they just aren't super fun, either for myself or the other party members who aren't playing horribly broken death machines. So... I am making a proper effort to not do this. So, instead of the Dervish Dancer Magus I had lined up, I am instead thinking of running a sword'n'board Paladin. It isn't SUPER feat intensive to hit Shield Mastery, so it gives me a lot of wriggle room to do some fun things with the character, and not needing a bunch of the extra TWF feats for damage due to Smite means I won't be feeling too underpowered. The other two party members are a Four Winds Monk and probably a Switch-Hitter Ranger. I'd like a bit of advice on building my tanky Paladin to be a solid combat character without being the sort of horribly broken thing that I usually play! -------- So far, I have: lvl 1, Human Paladin, 15 point-buy 13, 15, 12, 10, 10, 15 //Nothing under 10, so clearly not min-maxing whatsoever there...// Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Shield Bash //gives me a shield bash attack, both hitting at +0// My feat plan so far: lvl 3: Squire (Gives us an extra body on the field, not certain yet as to class) lvl 5: ? lvl 7: Shield Slam lvl 9: ? lvl 11: Shield Master I'll be running with a longsword and light shield - the former because it is thematically appropriate for a Paladin of Iomedae, and the latter because I like being able to use LOH in combat. |