Ok, I’ve got a couple of chronicle sheets that that are looking for a character. I’m thinking about a summoner just cause I like the concept of summoning minions to do my bidding without the creepy necro vibe. However, I am aware that summoners sometimes have a rep of dominating the table, marginalizing others, breaking the scenario, etc… I don’t want to do that. I prefer supporting the rest of the group.
So here’s my concept.
Gnome or Halfling for the +2 to charisma and small size defensive bonus.
Eidolon is not a combat machine, so others don’t have to worry about me marginalizing them or dominating the table.
...Primary: Build eidolon to be my mount.
...Secondary: If there is not another scout, the eidolon can serve as scout. I will just be slower on my own 2 feet.
...Tertiary: Eidolon can be shield/tank for me to hide behind. It can absorb and survive taking damage instead of me.
{This may be trying to do too much with the eidolon. I don't know.}
In combat, the summoner throws out a buff (like haste) or area control (like create pit) then uses a bow.
Should be at least semi-effective with bow, though obviously I don’t expect to be in the ballpark of the ranger or zen archer builds.
If more combat capability is needed (but I don’t think I will need the eidolon to flee upon) I can dismiss the eidolon and start summoning creatures like crazy with standard action summons.
I would have the charisma to be a bit of a face character even if I don’t have loads of skill points.
These are my thoughts (such as they are).
Does this seem like a workable concept?
Have you seen it done?
What should the build and progression look like for the eidolon and summoner?
Hmm... Been playing with this. I don't think I can make it a good enough archer to be worth while.
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I would drop the archery all together. You summons and Edolon are your "damage" your summoner will be dropping buff/control spells. Out of combat you will be using your Cha and skills. But a Archery summoner makes me laugh at their attempts at damage. Play a caster...you get full Summon spells like a full caster and access to other spells at lower levels. Focus on the casting.
THink of your Edolon and summoner as a Yin and Yang combo....They need each other to make a full character...but the fact you get 2 standards and 2 moves a round you are a little bit better off then a single character.
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Archer is tricky since summoners aren't proficient with bows. Remember also that you can only have one summon active at a time with your special ability. You'll probably want Elf, Half-Elf, or Human for a bow-based build, so you can get Point Blank Shot at 1st; any other race will have to start with Bow Proficiency as their only feat, which is simply terrible. (Unless you take Heirloom Weapon, but then you better not lose your bow...)
However, you might try going with a Halfling and taking the Helpful trait to give +4 to allies with Aid Another... including your Eidolon. The Bodyguard feat and Gloves of Arcane Striking can bolster your ability, too. That way you can use Aid Another as your primary action and cast spells when the need arises.
If your eidolon is a sneaky scout you might be able to dismiss it before combat begins (bond senses let you see what it sees around the corner). Dismissing the eido is a standard and summoning is a standard so it is the second round before you get to do much if you enter combat at the time you find a threat. If you are riding the eido you have to dismount and then dismiss it, not much slower, but it still uses an action you could have used elsewhere. Improved ini can help, especially if there is a surprise round. Reactionary trait (as much as I hate recommending it) will also help.
If you have to take a feat to get a bow, you might as well go with exotic and take something 'bigger'. I do not like any of the exotics that have range, though YMMV. Reach weapons may fit the bill. Especially if you wanted to simply aid others (+2) or give flanking (+2/+4 as mentioned above). Crossbow and dagger could be an option for summoners already & I can see dozens of tiny knives coming from a gnome or halfling while his critters cut up a target.
If you plan to have critters do your fighting, don't expect the eido to be available.
FWIW: My dwarf summoner (9th level) uses critters in combat and only once have I used all my summon monsters in a single scenario.
If you are determined for a small race and ranged combat, then halfling might be the choice. This is because they have an alternate racial trait, warslinger, that allows you to reload a sling as a free action.
After that, it is basically a slightly worse bow with half the ranged increment (that is still 50 feet-enough for most fights), smaller damage dice (1d4 or 1d6 to 1d3, since you are small), and worse criticals.
It does have advantages though. You can apply any str. bonus damage from the get go, without going through all that composite business bows have. Also, your ammo is cheap (for proper ammo) or free (for the shoddy stuff; only use if you run out).
Anyway, you might want to grab arcane strike at some point. I say this because summoners lack the static bonuses to damage that most ranged focused classes like to have.
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Your original concept sounds like one of the best summoner concepts I've seen, for actually wanting to have around. (I'll admit, at first glance my advice was going to be "don't play one").
Halfling does pretty well with Archery, size and Dex bonus help a lot. Start with a crossbow since your mount Eidolon can move for you. Then you have the choice of going low strength + Rapid Reload, or 10+ Str and picking up bow proficiency. You could also opt for an exotic repeating crossbow instead of rapid reload. You'll want to get 'rider' damage such as Arcane Strike, or flaming arrows (perhaps scrolls of Flame Arrow if you have good UMD).
You should be able to up your AC decently if you're focusing some on Dex. Also if you don't have much in the way of offensive spells, you can keep Charisma down at a 14-15 and not really suffer, leaving plenty to spread around... perhaps:
Str 8, Dex 18, Con 13, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 15.
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I would look at Hunter's Eye from the PFS Guide to Organized Play (p. 14)
Requirement(s) Andoran
Your parents had you blessed by the god Erastil as a youth, and you are a prodigy with a bow. You do not take any penalties for the second range increment when using a longbow or shortbow, and you are always considered proficient with one of these weapons (your choice).
Halfling blends well with Andoran, so you are all good on the flavor front. Probably worth taking some skill bumping .
Problem with Archery, is that it takes a whole slew of feats. You will always be a little behind on that score as you will want a decent number of caster feats (Quicken, Extend) and a couple for your Eidolon (Extra Evolution) to get the Eidolon some extra Skilled Evolutions. . . .
I was going to get bow proficiency with the Andoran Faction trait as Akinra suggested. However, playing around in Herolabs I don't appear to be able to get both my accuracy and damage high enough at the same time to even be (at least what I would consider) moderately effective with the bow.
I don't feel I can throw out lots of buffs as some suggested since summoners just don't get huge numbers of spells. I'm sure after a few levels I can do more than 1 a fight though they may not all be the good ones like haste.
As I said, I don't want to make my eidolon a combat machine since I have seen and read about that creating hard feelings at the table.
I would not summon more than 1 creature per fight unless it seemed necessary to survive. I don't want to slow things down or hog the table.
I am going to investigate Halfling with the Helpful alternate trait. Would you folks feel like someone that had thrown out say 2 buffs then stood at the back using aid another to give you a +4 on AC or to hit was pulling his weight with the group? Even at mid to high PFS levels?
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I am going to investigate Halfling with the Helpful alternate trait. Would you folks feel like someone that had thrown out say 2 buffs then stood at the back using aid another to give you a +4 on AC or to hit was pulling his weight with the group? Even at mid to high PFS levels?
Since you have an eidolon that will be kicking ass, yes. Also remember that at higher levels you can use the Gloves of Arcane Striking to get increasing bonuses - up to +7 at 10th. Now, once everyone has iterative attacks, Aid Another gets a little less effective, but by then you should be able to cast spells much more frequently.
Also remember that while Bodyguard only requires you to be adjacent to an ally, Aid Another typically requires you to threaten the baddie you want to provide a bonus against.
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Since you have an eidolon that will be kicking ass, yes. Also remember that at higher levels you can use the Gloves of Arcane Striking to get increasing bonuses - up to +7 at 10th. Now, once everyone has iterative attacks, Aid Another gets a little less effective, but by then you should be able to cast spells much more frequently.Also remember that while Bodyguard only requires you to be adjacent to an ally, Aid Another typically requires you to threaten the baddie you want to provide a bonus against.
I won't have an eidolon kicking ass. See above.
I had not thought about the Gloves of Arcane Striking. I will check them out.
I forgot that I had to threaten the badguy to Aid Another. That makes it much less useful to a squishy like me. What if I only use aid another to give an AC bonus instead of a to hit bonus, do I still have to threaten? What if I use a whip to aid from farther away?
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Well, you aren't taking the Master Summoner or another archetype that limits your eidolon, right? Even a defense- or versatility-focused eidolon will still be a capable combatant. The paizo boards tend to worship the maximium-attack maximum-strength pounce-enabled guided missile eidolon, but unless you go out of your way to nerf your eidolon it will be at least as capable as an animal companion in combat. If you're afraid of dominating combat, I would recommend simply grabbing Power Attack and maybe something like the Reach and Trip evolutions for Bite (or Claws and Energy Attacks or something) and then put the rest of your evolution pool into versatility options - Skilled, Scent, Climb, Burrow, etc. - and defensive options like Improved Natural Armor or Damage Reduction. That should leave you with a sturdy, versatile, combat-capable eidolon.
Aid Another
In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent's next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.
You can also use this standard action to help a friend in other ways, such as when he is affected by a spell, or to assist another character's skill check.
To Aid:
-Your friend must be in melee with the enemy.-You must be able to reach the enemy with a melee attack. (This includes reach weapons and whips.)
I was planning on a scout focused eidolon. With the evolutions to see, move, sneak, and perceive I'm not finding any room for anything except the 2 claws the base comes with.
If a fight goes south, I should be able to fairly quickly flood with summoned creatures. But I don't want to do that unless necessary since it grinds a combat to a slow boil with all the actions.
The whip would allow me to be a little farther away. But I didn't want to 'waste' a proficiency on whip. I just don't like being that close. There's a lot of things with reach. But maybe it wouldn't be so bad.
What about a halflings using slings and other halflings ranged weapons?
I may go to that. I don't feel like I can get enough ranged combat capability to feel even moderately effective. But I also don't think I will survive long if I get close enough to aid with a long spear.
I suppose it will only be a big deal in the first few levels. After that I will have a few more uses per day on buffs and summon monster.
Later levels should be summon monster (scouting eidolon hopefully dismissed prior to combat), group buff (like haste), individual buff (like enlarge person), then either ranged or aid another.
If we manage to get the buffs before combat (ideal world), then I will have more rounds of either aiding or shooting. But things will be starting off with my buffs already in place. So it should still be ok.