Does Seoni's Innate Ability Have the Arcane Trait

[Reynier Otero]

I have searched the forums but I can't seem to find a direct answer.

Basically: when Seoni discards a card to roll her Arcande die and 1d6 it says it has the Magic, Fire, and Attack traits, like many offensive Arcane spells. Does it, however, have the Arcane trait?

I want to say yes because it uses the Arcane die so maybe the Arcane trait wasn't listed because it was a given but, as per the rules, I don't want to assume things that aren't actually printed.

Thoughts?

[MightyJim]

I'm afraid I can't answer the question, but I have a related query that I hope might get picked up together-

I'm a bit puzzled on when traits get added to checks generally.

Quite a few enemies say "if your check does not have the magic trait, the X is undefeated" - do we actually need something that says "add the Magic trait", or does using a Magic Weapon, or a spell add it automatically?

returning to the OP - is there a card that triggers off of something having an "arcane trait", or is this just a question for interest's sake?

[Hawkmoon269]

Traits of a check (or maybe more specifically the type of check) are determined in the following way:

1. The skill you use on the check.

2. If you play a card to "determine which die you're using" all the traits of that card (in the upper left corner) are added to the check. Any card power that says "For your combat check..." is such a card.

Rulebook v3 p11 wrote:

Some cards may allow you to replace the required skill for a check with a different one; as part of this action, you may play only 1 card or use only 1 power that defines the skill you are going to use. When you play a card that does this, add that card’s traits to the check; for example, revealing the weapon Longsword +1 for

your combat check adds the Sword, Melee, Slashing, and Magic traits to the check.

3. If a card played or power activated specifically tells you to add a trait to the check. For example "Fiery Weapon" adds the Fire trait when played.

So since Seoni's power tells her to roll her Arcane die, her combat check when using that power is an Arcane check (as well as a Charisma check) via #1. And it has the Attack, Fire, and Magic traits via #3. So it is an Attack, Fire, Magic, Arcane, Charisma combat check.

But, since some locations (Thassilonian Dungeon) care about whether you play an Arcane spell, I think it is important to note that Seoni's power doesn't count (at least in my opinion) as playing an Arcane spell. Her power doesn't mention that the spell itself has the Arcane trait. By comparison, if Weapon Master Valeros plays a Ranged weapon but uses his Melee die instead of Ranged, it doesn't mean that he has played a Melee weapon. (Though he has managed to make a Ranged Melee combat check.) So the card having the trait and the check the results having the trait are two different things.

[csouth154]

Hawkmoon269 wrote:

if Weapon Master Valeros plays a Ranged weapon but uses his Melee die instead of Ranged, it doesn't mean that he has played a Melee weapon. (Though he has managed to make a Ranged Melee combat check.)

Wow...you're exactly right...and I think that's gonna cause problems down the road. Or maybe it already has. Take the Forgefiend, for instance. The intent is clearly that a close combat check should hurt you, while an attack from a distance should not, but since that is determined by check traits, and Mike has confirmed that the skill you use adds itself as a trait (this is why Seoni's checks using her power are Arcane checks),...does that mean they really want Valeros to trigger that effect from the Forgefiend when he uses his melee die with a ranged weapon against him?

I would think not...and a simple fix would be to change it to say that you take damage UNLESS your check has the ranged or attack trait. Basically, describe the conditions that allow you to avoid the damage, as opposed to the conditions that trigger thr damage...if that makes any sense...

[Hawkmoon269]

Ah yes. Over here. Actually, it looks like there might be some small unanswered questions from the thread. One of which was whether Seoni activates the Thassilonian Dungeon's power when she uses her power. Which is the question being raised here too.

[Reynier Otero]

Hi Hawkmoon. Yes, the thread you posted eventually got to the issue we had about that particular location and Seoni. I see that the developers themselves have no confirmed one way or another. Boo.

[Vic Wertz]

From the S&S Rulebook:

Any skills you use are added as traits to the check. (For example, if your character has the skill Melee: Strength +2, and you use your Melee skill, both the Strength and the Melee trait are added to the check.)

[Reynier Otero]

Hi Vic~

Is this rulebook available online?

[Hawkmoon269]

The S&S Rulebook isn't online yet. (Though it would maybe make for a good teaser about S&S.)

Also: Is there a ruling on whether Seoni's power counts as an Arcane spell and not just an "untyped" spell? Thanks!

[csouth154]

My guess is that they will rule it an arcane spell. My reasoning is twofold:

1) She uses her arcane die with it.

2) There is no other spell that instructs you to use your arcane die that does not have the arcane trait.

I'm interested to hear an official ruling, though.

[Reynier Otero]

Based on what Vic said wouldn't that be making Seoni's power an Arcane spell because she is using her Arcane skill for it?

[csouth154]

Reynier Otero wrote:

Based on what Vic said wouldn't that be making Seoni's power an Arcane spell because she is using her Arcane skill for it?

Her check when using it has the arcane trait, but it is not 100% clear that the spell itself has the arcane trait...though, as I said above, my guess is that it is an arcane spell.