First attack or first hit?
First damage roll, not first attack.
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First damage roll, not first attack.
That's not what the feat says.
Prerequisites: Str 15, Improved Unarmed Strike, Acrobatics 3 ranks.
Benefit: While using this style, you gain a +2 bonus on saving throws against sleep effects, paralysis effects, and stunning effects. You ignore difficult terrain when you charge, run, or withdraw. You can also charge through squares that contain allies. Further, you can add 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus on the damage roll for your first unarmed strike on a given round.
It says your first unarmed strike on a given round, not your first successful unarmed strike. While it's a reasonable house rule to allow it to apply to the first successful unarmed strike, that is a house rule and not RAW.
First damage roll, not first attack.That's not what the feat says.
Prerequisites: Str 15, Improved Unarmed Strike, Acrobatics 3 ranks.
Benefit: While using this style, you gain a +2 bonus on saving throws against sleep effects, paralysis effects, and stunning effects. You ignore difficult terrain when you charge, run, or withdraw. You can also charge through squares that contain allies. Further, you can add 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus on the damage roll for your first unarmed strike on a given round.
It says your first unarmed strike on a given round, not your first successful unarmed strike. While it's a reasonable house rule to allow it to apply to the first successful unarmed strike, that is a house rule and not RAW.
From Ultimate Combat:
Benefit: While using this style, you gain a +2 bonus onsaving throws against sleep effects, paralysis effects, and
stunning effects. You ignore difficult terrain when you
charge, run, or withdraw. You can also charge through
squares that contain allies. Further, you can add 1-1/2
times your Strength bonus on the damage roll for your
first unarmed strike on a given round.
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First damage roll, not first attack.That's not what the feat says.
Prerequisites: Str 15, Improved Unarmed Strike, Acrobatics 3 ranks.
Benefit: While using this style, you gain a +2 bonus on saving throws against sleep effects, paralysis effects, and stunning effects. You ignore difficult terrain when you charge, run, or withdraw. You can also charge through squares that contain allies. Further, you can add 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus on the damage roll for your first unarmed strike on a given round.
It says your first unarmed strike on a given round, not your first successful unarmed strike. While it's a reasonable house rule to allow it to apply to the first successful unarmed strike, that is a house rule and not RAW.
From Ultimate Combat:
Benefit: While using this style, you gain a +2 bonus on
saving throws against sleep effects, paralysis effects, and
stunning effects. You ignore difficult terrain when you
charge, run, or withdraw. You can also charge through
squares that contain allies. Further, you can add 1-1/2
times your Strength bonus on the damage roll for your
first unarmed strike on a given round.
You quoted exactly the same rules that I did. I suggest you read it again. Specifically, "Further, you can add 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus on the damage roll for your first unarmed strike on a given round." (emphasis mine)
If you miss on the first unarmed strike in a round then you do not gain the damage bonus on any other attack because while it may be the first damage roll from an unarmed strike that round, it is NOT your first unarmed strike in that round. If you hit on the first attack in a round, you get a damage roll, and you can add 1.5 your STR bonus to that attack. If you do not hit, you do not get a damage roll and you miss the bonus damage, because any other unarmed strike damage roll you make that round is not your first unarmed strike.
If you feel it should be different, then by all means hit hit the FAQ button. But RAW, it only applies on the first unarmed strike attack.
First attack in the round. This is either the first attack in a flurry, or an attack of opportunity if it happens before your turn begins. If that attack misses, you do not get the bonus damage on your next attack, as it is not your first attack in a round.
The latter part of this statement is interesting - since you start a combat flat-footed until your first action, I always assumed that AoO only take place after your turn, so an AoO could almost never happen before you act (except perhaps if an opponent does something on your turn that provokes an AoO - like holding to punch you when you enter range with an unarmed strike the feat). Is this thinking incorrect? I assumed your round started with your action.
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First attack in the round. This is either the first attack in a flurry, or an attack of opportunity if it happens before your turn begins. If that attack misses, you do not get the bonus damage on your next attack, as it is not your first attack in a round.The latter part of this statement is interesting - since you start a combat flat-footed until your first action, I always assumed that AoO only take place after your turn, so an AoO could almost never happen before you act (except perhaps if an opponent does something on your turn that provokes an AoO - like holding to punch you when you enter range with an unarmed strike the feat). Is this thinking incorrect? I assumed your round started with your action.
Lets assume you are fighting a single opponent and there is no surprise round.
You roll initiative, and your opponent goes first. You are flatfooted until your turn. To keep things simple, lets say your opponent is using a bow and attacks you on his turn. On your turn you close to melee range and make a single attack with your unarmed strike. You hit and do the bonus damage from dragon style, as it is your first unarmed strike this round. This ends your turn and the round.On round two, the opponent decides to shoot you in melee, thus provoking an attack of opportunity. You attack and hit, therefore this is your first unarmed strike of this round, even though it happened before your turn.
First damage roll, not first attack.That's not what the feat says.
Prerequisites: Str 15, Improved Unarmed Strike, Acrobatics 3 ranks.
Benefit: While using this style, you gain a +2 bonus on saving throws against sleep effects, paralysis effects, and stunning effects. You ignore difficult terrain when you charge, run, or withdraw. You can also charge through squares that contain allies. Further, you can add 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus on the damage roll for your first unarmed strike on a given round.
It says your first unarmed strike on a given round, not your first successful unarmed strike. While it's a reasonable house rule to allow it to apply to the first successful unarmed strike, that is a house rule and not RAW.
You apply it to a damage roll. You do not roll damage unless you hit. If your first unarmed strike of the round misses, it did not have a damage roll to apply the bonus to. So it has to be the first successful unarmed strike, by logic.
...Its logical to ignore the phrase "first unarmed strike" written there because the rules don't specifically say "your damage roll for your first unarmed strike if you get one?"
When you don't get to make a roll, what happens to the bonuses you would get on that roll?
@Imbicatus: Maybe your misunderstanding comes from bolding the wrong part of the text. I am with StreamOfTheSky here; I'd bold the phrase "damage roll for your first unarmed strike" - maybe you should hit the FAQ button instead of telling others to do that. Or read the text again as a whole.
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If you don't hit, you don't roll damage.
As the feat clearly states you add 1.5x STR bonus on the damage roll, it's as good as saying "on your first successful Unarmed Strike on a given round". But being that the publishers have to be cognizant of word count and space they sometimes have to be as concise as possible.
First attack in the round. This is either the first attack in a flurry, or an attack of opportunity if it happens before your turn begins. If that attack misses, you do not get the bonus damage on your next attack, as it is not your first attack in a round.The latter part of this statement is interesting - since you start a combat flat-footed until your first action, I always assumed that AoO only take place after your turn, so an AoO could almost never happen before you act (except perhaps if an opponent does something on your turn that provokes an AoO - like holding to punch you when you enter range with an unarmed strike the feat). Is this thinking incorrect? I assumed your round started with your action.Lets assume you are fighting a single opponent and there is no surprise round.
You roll initiative, and your opponent goes first. You are flatfooted until your turn. To keep things simple, lets say your opponent is using a bow and attacks you on his turn. On your turn you close to melee range and make a single attack with your unarmed strike. You hit and do the bonus damage from dragon style, as it is your first unarmed strike this round. This ends your turn and the round.On round two, the opponent decides to shoot you in melee, thus provoking an attack of opportunity. You attack and hit, therefore this is your first unarmed strike of this round, even though it happened before your turn.
I guess this is never how I've interpreted it, because it breaks various other things in the system. What your interpretation means is that things reset 'per combat round' not 'per player round'. So, if I get 4 attacks of opportunity (due to combat reflexes and dex), and the orcs act on initiative 2, I can take 4 AoO's on them, then if their wolves act on initiative 21 (the next combat round), I can take 4 more, even if I haven't acted.
Further, the wording of fighting defensively:
Fighting Defensively as a Standard Action: You can choose to fight defensively when attacking. If you do so, you take a –4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC until the start of your next turn.
This means that if I fight defensively on initiative 2, I can take AoO's with no penalty (but have an AC bonus) starting at the top initiative of the next round.
I would rule against this at my table - rounds are from your turn until your next turn begins, has always been my interpretation. We barely keep track of combat rounds after the first except for spell durations. Does this present additional complications?
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If you don't hit, you don't roll damage.
As the feat clearly states you add 1.5x STR bonus on the damage roll, it's as good as saying "on your first successful Unarmed Strike on a given round". But being that the publishers have to be cognizant of word count and space they sometimes have to be as concise as possible.
First: If you don't hit, you don't roll damage: +1,000,000
The feat clearly states that you add the extra damage on your first unarmed strike, not your first successful unarmed strike. Those are two very different sentences.
So the feat says, if you don't hit on your first unarmed strike in a round, you don't get the extra damage.
Plain, in keeping with RAW, where are you going adding extra words that are not in the feat?
I'm so tempted to have an armored MoMS monk with vital strike.
On this same topic, how does Dragon Ferocity works together with Dragon Style?
Lets say i have Strength 18 and two unarmed attacks, each doing 1d6+4.
1d6+8/1d6+6 ?
or
1d6+6/1d6+6, because the bonuses dont stack?
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On this same topic, how does Dragon Ferocity works together with Dragon Style?
Lets say i have Strength 18 and two unarmed attacks, each doing 1d6+4.
1d6+8/1d6+6 ?
or
1d6+6/1d6+6, because the bonuses dont stack?
The first one. Dragon Style lets you do 1.5 Str on your first attack. Dragon Ferocity grants an bonus .5 Str on all unarmed strikes. They are not from the same source, so they stack.
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It's worded the same as Manyshot:
Would you claim that it's the first attack that hits that benefits from Manyshot? Of course not; it's the first attack attempted that has the potential to gain this benefit. Likewise, it's the first Unarmed Strike attempted that has the potential to gain the benefit. To say otherwise, that it's the first one that actually hits would be to say that Manyshot allows you to keep firing double arrows until one volley finally hits, at which point you aren't allowed to fire double arrows anymore.Many Shot
Benefit: When making a full-attack action with a bow, your first attack fires two arrows. If the attack hits, both arrows hit. Apply precision-based damage (such as sneak attack) and critical hit damage only once for this attack. Damage bonuses from using a composite bow with a high Strength bonus apply to each arrow, as do other damage bonuses, such as a ranger's favored enemy bonus. Damage reduction and resistances apply separately to each arrow.
I would claim that Many Shot and Dragon Style are not worded anything alike and trying to compare the two is not helpful.
Do you roll damage when you miss? If you do, then I guess you're right!
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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You apply it to a damage roll. You do not roll damage unless you hit. If your first unarmed strike of the round misses, it did not have a damage roll to apply the bonus to. So it has to be the first successful unarmed strike, by logic.
Um, no. That's not logic.
Logic says that applying the bonus to "the damage roll for your first unarmed strike" and applying the bonus to "the damage roll for your second unarmed strike" are not the same thing.
Logic says that "the damage roll for your first unarmed strike" and "the first damage roll for your unarmed strike" are not the same thing.
And finally, logic says that if you never have the thing the bonus applies to, you don't get to apply the bonus.