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So, in the Ranger's animal companion entry it states:
"A ranger's animal companion shares his favored enemy and favored terrain bonuses."
This would mean that when a Ranger targets an enemy with the Instant Enemy spell, both he and his Animal Companion would get the appropriate bonuses, correct?
All purpose cleaner cleans all purposes.
I would argue that in only increase the bonus for the ranger ad it is a presonal spell. And that the bonus from favored enemy to the animal companion does not get affected.
Was the bane + instant enemy resolved?
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I would argue that in only increase the bonus for the ranger ad it is a presonal spell. And that the bonus from favored enemy to the animal companion does not get affected.
How do you come to that conclusion?
The spell clearly adds a favored enemy to your list (temporarily) and you share all of your favored enemy bonuses with your companion. Seems pretty clear-cut to me.
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Instant Enemy does not have a target of personal, it has a target of "one creature that is not your favored enemy".
Moreover, the Animal Companion doesn't have his own Favored Enemy and Favored Terrain class features, he "shares (the ranger's) favored enemy
and favored terrain bonuses". He doesn't get the class features at all, he just shares the bonuses the Ranger receives.
Instant Enemy treats the target as though "it were that type of favored enemy for all purposes". Emphasis mine.
I think it's actually pretty clear that Instant Enemy would cause the animal companion to gain all the appropriate favored enemy bonuses.
Hm.
I'm not sure how I would resolve this and need to think about it and look into it further. At the moment I don't think I would jump one way or the other with confidence. My initial lean is towards Ssalarn's position, but in contrast to how Ssalarn is reading the emphasis I could also see an emphasis as follows:
you treat the target as if it were that type of favored enemy for all purposes
So, your favored enemy bonuses do not actually change, and those are what is transmitted to your animal companion. On the other hand, the post above makes good points.
Off to leaf through the rules.
(well, actually, off to work, but leafing through the rules is now on the radar)
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Ssalarn said it pretty good. Basically the spell is targeting a foe and that foe becomes one of your favored enemies. So, for example, if the ranger has human and undead as favored enemies and casts the spell on a minotaur, that minotaur is now treated as either a human or undead for the purposes of favored enemy bonuses. It doesn't actually change anything about your favored enemies or their bonuses. So you are sharing nothing new with your campanion. It's all the same as it was before the spell except that the minotaur is now considered to be one of those two favored enemies you have.
Edit: I was incorrect in my interpretation in my last post but the outcome is the same.
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Except "favored enemy" is not an option for bane. You have to select the actual creature type. Instant enemy doesn't change the creature type of the creature targeted. That combo doesn't work the way he wants it to. He would still need to identify the creature or hope someone else does and relates the info.
So . . . you could cast instant enemy, then charm person on a skeletal hippo to make it your friend? Interesting.
So . . . you could cast instant enemy, then charm person on a skeletal hippo to make it your friend? Interesting.Actually, no. The skeletal hippo is still mindless, so mind-affecting spells wouldn't effect him.
(edit)
Okay, then, a vampiric hippo. Or a regular hippo.
you treat the target as if it were that type of favored enemy for all purposesSo, your favored enemy bonuses do not actually change, and those are what is transmitted to your animal companion.
This is how what I think.
Ah, ok. No, he is still a demon. He is only treated as a goblin for favored enemy...nothing else. It's kind of moot though as you can just bane (demon) and still get the bonuses from both.
This contradict the other things you said, the one about "for all purporses", But it is how I would treat the spell.
So . . . you could cast instant enemy, then charm person on a skeletal hippo to make it your friend? Interesting.Actually, no. The skeletal hippo is still mindless, so mind-affecting spells wouldn't effect him.(edit)
Okay, then, a vampiric hippo. Or a regular hippo.
Yes. Of course you have to be 10th level ranger and 1st level wizard, and have favored enemy of a humanoid type, not have undead as a favored enemy, and use a 3rd level spell and a 1st level spell.
Or you could just be a 3rd level wizard, use a 2nd level spell, and get a superior result.
I reject that conclusion. Instant enemy allow you to treat the target as your favored enmy for all purposes that have to do with the favored enemy class feature. An undead hippo is still an undead hippo.
So . . . you could cast instant enemy, then charm person on a skeletal hippo to make it your friend? Interesting.Actually, no. The skeletal hippo is still mindless, so mind-affecting spells wouldn't effect him.(edit)
Okay, then, a vampiric hippo. Or a regular hippo.
Yes. Of course you have to be 10th level ranger and 1st level wizard, and have favored enemy of a humanoid type, not have undead as a favored enemy, and use a 3rd level spell and a 1st level spell.
Or you could just be a 3rd level wizard, use a 2nd level spell, and get a superior result.
Oh, it doesn't stop there. You only need 1 level of ranger and a wand. There are a lot of humanoid-only spells that would work well here.
Ranger 1/Paladin X. Smite evil really is smite evil.
Ranger 1/Druid X. Now you can awaken all sorts of things.
Note, that just because you turn something to an evil outsider, that doesn't mean its alignment has changed.
Wich pretty much contradict the rest you are saying. Eveil outsider are evil, undeads are undeads and still inmune to charm.
Favored Enemy feature is defined by creature type, but it doesn't cause a creature to gain that type.
So casting favored enemy on a Demon, letting you treat you treat the demon as a 'Favored Enemy: Goblin' for all purposes lets you fight it with better bonuses (and gives other things, bonuses to AC, hunters bond etc. etc.) Anything Favored Enemy: Goblin would give you against Goblins you get against that Demon now (hence all purposes). Otherwise it doesn't effect the Demon. Favored Enemy: Goblin doesn't have anything that would cause a creatures type to change, so the Demon is still Outsider (Evil) etc.
You treat the creature as a favored enemy for all purposes, you don't treat it as a different creature type for any purpose.
I agree that this is probably not the intent of the rule, but it was fun to see how far the rabbit hole goes if we read it strictly.
Fair enough, and an interesting thought experiment. I would say though that such an interpretation would not in fact be reading it strictly, so much as reading it incorrectly. Strictly it says you treat it as a favored enemy for all purposes, not that you change its creature type. No need for figuring out intent, or guessing...it says exactly what it does, and it does what it says, no more.
Show me where the words "that have to do with favored enemy class feature" appears in the spell. I'll wait.
This is the rules forum, what you want the spell to do doesn't matter, the spell does what it says it does, no more and no less. Feel free to house rule it in your games.
Really doesn't need to show that, it is plain that there are ridiculous consequences to going beyond an expected meaning of the phrasing.
It also says "treat as a favored enemy of that type, not as a creature of that type". How a Ranger treats their favored enemies (other than badly), is well defined in the class feature.
Just double-checking, have we all basically come around to the idea that Instant Enemy would also benefit your Hunter's Bond, either your companions or your Animal Companion?
Yes. It's a sick addition to an already broken spell, but yes, no reason it shouldn't work.
Yes it works, instant enemy is sick. I still want to make a dwarf ranger that takes all the dwarven racial traits vs giants, max out my fe bonus vs giants, and add bane to my weapon.
Wow. I didn't even know that Animal Companions benefited from Favored Enemy.
{Strawmen and silly statements}
See examples above for why it simply does not work that way.
shiiktan: Nicely phrased.
Actually, I had a related question I was considering asking, and this seems like a good place to throw it out. The text for instant enemy reads:
Spell Description:School enchantment; Level ranger 3 Casting Time 1 swift action
Components V, S
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one creature that is not your favored enemy.
Duration 1 minute/level
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance noWith this spell you designate the target as your favored enemy for the remainder of its duration. Select one of your favored enemy types. For the duration of the spell, you treat the target as if it were that type of favored enemy for all purposes. <Source>
My reading of the text of the spell, combined with the target (one creature that is not your favored enemy) is that your target specifically is treated as your favored enemy, but other creatures of its type would not be.
Thus:
- You are a ranger with a favored enemy human (+6).
- Your run into a group of demons.
- You cast Instant Enemy on one of the demons.
- You treat that demon as if it was human for the purposes of FE bonuses.
- Any other demons in the group do not count as your favored enemy, unless you also cast Instant Enemy on each of them.
- You still have your +6 bonus for any humans you run across.
The other interpretation of the spell would be that when you cast Instant Enemy on a demon, you treat all demons as favored enemies for the duration of the spell. To my mind, this reading (A) may be overpowered, and (B) more importantly goes against the wording of the spell. I'm curious, though, what others' interpretations of this ruling would be.
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Yep, it's cast on a single enemy. The spell says it right there. "You treat the target..." The target is the creature.
The other interpretation of the spell would be that when you cast Instant Enemy on a demon, you treat all demons as favored enemies for the duration of the spell. To my mind, this reading (A) may be overpowered, and (B) more importantly goes against the wording of the spell. I'm curious, though, what others' interpretations of this ruling would be.
I think nobody disagrees with you on this. Pretty clear instant enemy only works on just one target. The argument is about if you only apply the FE bonus or if you can apply other things like the bane property and if the animal companion benefits from the spell.
It's really not all that sick. It's a spell for a tenth-level ranger. Spell slots aren't exactly in huge supply at that point. As a wand for lower level rangers, it's too expensive to justify unless I was starting high enough to have the change to drop. For a character brought up from 1, I'm not likely to have 15,750 gp in cash on-hand until around level ten anyway.
The spell specifically says it targets one creature, and that you treat the target (in other words, that one creature) as if it were that type of Favored Enemy.
So, you cast it on one demon, you've got your +6 human bonus against him. You don't have it for any of the other demons, since they weren't targeted.
EDIT: Ninja'd really hard while reading the rest of the thread. :P
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The only thing which troubles me is the Bane property applying to ranger's attack. I sincerely doubt it works like that, since it does slightly more or even damage as paladin's smite, depending on current level.
Everything else, like sharing hunter's bond to party and pet seems fine logically.
Malag