|
1. Joining the Thieves' Guild (as described in the Pathfinder Society Field Guide) allows a character to be a professional thief, using Sleight of Hand for Day Job rolls.
2. The Fast Fingers Rogue Talent. Res ipsa loquitur.
My Rogue is already a member in good standing of the Thieves' Guild. If she took the Fast Fingers Talent, could she apply its benefit to her Day Job rolls?
|
I believe the answer is "no".
When you're rolling for your Day Job you're not actually making a Perform, Profession, Craft, or (in this case) Sleight of Hand skill check, you're instead using the total bonus you have in that skill as your Day Job check. So, since you're not actually making a Sleight of Hand skill check, the Rogue Talent will not help you.
Day Job rolls are their own special Pathfinder Society "thing".
|
|
I suppose actually the important language here is "once per day". Since the time required for the day job check is undefined, you can't use any restricted abilities (other than Crafter's Fortune) on the check.
...Okay, that's something else I need to know, since you brought it up. I know crafter's fortune can be used in Organized Play to help Alchemists brew alchemical substances, but my understanding was that it specifically could not be applied to Day Job rolls - so can it or can't it? My group's finishing up a Scenario next week in which I've been playing my Alchemist, so now's a really good time to get that clarified.
|
|
I suppose actually the important language here is "once per day". Since the time required for the day job check is undefined, you can't use any restricted abilities (other than Crafter's Fortune) on the check....Okay, that's something else I need to know, since you brought it up. I know crafter's fortune can be used in Organized Play to help Alchemists brew alchemical substances, but my understanding was that it specifically could not be applied to Day Job rolls - so can it or can't it? My group's finishing up a Scenario next week in which I've been playing my Alchemist, so now's a really good time to get that clarified.
The spell [crafter's fortune]ends after 1/day per level or when used. It can be used for Day Job rolls.-Mike brock
|
|
lets start by looking at the day job rules:
Permanent bonuses from equipment, feats, racial bonuses, and traits affect your Day Job check as they would any check for the rolled skill, but temporary bonuses such as those granted by spell effects, other than crafter’s fortune, do not contribute, as the duration over which the Day Job check is made is undefined and represents a longer amount of time than a spell’s duration would permit the bonus to remain.
You can use your shirt/folio roll, so I don't see why you couldn't use this re-roll.
The only question is if you've already used it on the day, can you still use it for your day job roll.
Considering the indefinite amount of time your day job takes I don't see any reason to conclude the day job check happens on the same day as your adventure.
|
|
Pirate Rob: the question is how many checks you make per day picking pockets. If you're there for 8 hours a day all week picking pockets, 1 reroll won't help you. If you're trying to make one big score it would.
For the dayjob: 1 roll. We already know that the shirt reroll works, and crafter's fortune works, which wears off after you make a check.
I feel like the fast fingers talent shouldn't work, but I don't see a compelling rules reason why not.
|
|
I'd let it work but I think you'll have to accept variance on it.
Would you do me a favor and explain how that works? I'm familiar with "table variance," but my local group is VERY small, and the primary DM we currently have, certainly, errs on going overboard with regard to running Organized Play according to "RAW" - so he'd probably accept whichever verdict on this particular issue I brought back from here (I've earned a reputation as the best rules lawyer my group's got, and that was even back when said group was significantly larger as it is at the moment), but it would have to be pretty black-and-white.
|
|
He's saying that there's no clear solution so some Gms could say yes and others no, and neither would be wrong.
Example: Do potions fit in wrist sheathes?
---
That said, I believe I have located the answer:
So the general rule is:
Rerolls may not be used on day job checks because the result is already known.
Specific exception: Shirt Reroll may be used.
Conclusion: Fast Fingers may not be used to reroll a day job.
|
|
He's saying that there's no clear solution so some Gms could say yes and others no, and neither would be wrong.
Example: Do potions fit in wrist sheathes?
---
That said, I believe I have located the answer:
So the general rule is:
Rerolls may not be used on day job checks because the result is already known.
Specific exception: Shirt Reroll may be used.
Conclusion: Fast Fingers may not be used to reroll a day job.
This argument doesn't work against fast fingers. Fast fingers is roll twice and take the better, not look at the roll and decide.
|
|
Would you do me a favor and explain how that works? I'm familiar with "table variance," but my local group is VERY small, and the primary DM we currently have, certainly, errs on going overboard with regard to running Organized Play according to "RAW" - so he'd probably accept whichever verdict on this particular issue I brought back from here (I've earned a reputation as the best rules lawyer my group's got, and that was even back when said group was significantly larger as it is at the moment), but it would have to be pretty black-and-white.
Its not black and white (yet) unfortunately so it works however the DM for that session says it works. If he says no then the answer is no. If he says yes then it works. That means you might get it some weeks and not others.
I'm not so sure of my answer as to say "it must work this way!", but really don't see that it matters much- it isn't a lot of gold.
|
|
Fast Fingers says to roll twice when making a Sleight of Hand check.
As has been quoted by Pirate Rob, this is a "Day Job check".
You're using your Sleight of Hand bonus in place of your Day Job check.
It's a substitution, like a Bard's Versatile Performance.
I would not allow Fast Fingers to work on your Day Job check.
I understand why there's ambiguity, though.
|
A Day Job roll is a single roll representing a number of different tasks being performed over a period of time. Anything that modifies a single skill check should not affect Day Job rolls; anything that gives a bonus over a long-period of time - and thus benefits multiple skill checks made over a period of time - should.
Spells like Guidance give a bonus to a single skill attempt, so not applicable to Day Job. IMHO, Fast Fingers gives a benefit to a single skill check, so not applicable. Even Crafter's Fortune only grants a bonus to a single skill check; I'd say no. You'd have to find something that would give a bonus for hours or even days - maybe an extended Owl's Wisdom?
|
|
A Day Job roll is a single roll representing a number of different tasks being performed over a period of time. Anything that modifies a single skill check should not affect Day Job rolls; anything that gives a bonus over a long-period of time - and thus benefits multiple skill checks made over a period of time - should.
Spells like Guidance give a bonus to a single skill attempt, so not applicable to Day Job. IMHO, Fast Fingers gives a benefit to a single skill check, so not applicable. Even Crafter's Fortune only grants a bonus to a single skill check; I'd say no. You'd have to find something that would give a bonus for hours or even days - maybe an extended Owl's Wisdom?
Except Crafter's fortune explicitly works.
|
|
Interesting. I see that now; it is called out explicitly in the PFS Guide. I'm not going to argue with that, but I'm honestly not sure why it would. I've seen a lot of posts that suggest it lasts 1 day/level, but that's not correct.
From the PRD:
"Duration: 1 day/level or until discharged (D)
The target is struck by inspiration and gains a +5 luck bonus on its next Craft skill check."
It's a single use spell. One Craft check. Sure seems like it shouldn't add anything to Day Job roles. Maybe a single Craft check is understood to last for several hours (or a week, according to the crafting rules) so a bonus to Craft is good for the whole time. But, if that's the case, why doesn't Guidance do the same thing?
|
Interesting. I see that now; it is called out explicitly in the PFS Guide. I'm not going to argue with that, but I'm honestly not sure why it would. I've seen a lot of posts that suggest it lasts 1 day/level, but that's not correct.
From the PRD:
"Duration: 1 day/level or until discharged (D)The target is struck by inspiration and gains a +5 luck bonus on its next Craft skill check."
It's a single use spell. One Craft check. Sure seems like it shouldn't add anything to Day Job roles. Maybe a single Craft check is understood to last for several hours (or a week, according to the crafting rules) so a bonus to Craft is good for the whole time. But, if that's the case, why doesn't Guidance do the same thing?
Because Guidance explicitly has a maximum duration of 1 minute.
|
|
But, if that's the case, why doesn't Guidance do the same thing?
One thing that's certainly true is that unlike, for example, guidance, heroism, or the Archaeologist's Luck class feature, crafter's fortune is of far less utility in Pathfinder Society unless they allow it to serve as an exception to certain rules.
|
A Day Job roll is a single roll representing a number of different tasks being performed over a period of time. Anything that modifies a single skill check should not affect Day Job rolls; anything that gives a bonus over a long-period of time - and thus benefits multiple skill checks made over a period of time - should.
Spells like Guidance give a bonus to a single skill attempt, so not applicable to Day Job. IMHO, Fast Fingers gives a benefit to a single skill check, so not applicable. Even Crafter's Fortune only grants a bonus to a single skill check; I'd say no. You'd have to find something that would give a bonus for hours or even days - maybe an extended Owl's Wisdom?
Actually, the Craft skill is already set up to function like a 'Day Job' check: You make a single roll to determine your progress toward completing an item that week (or day). Since Crafter's Fortune is intended to buff this 'once / week' roll, it makes some sense to apply it to the 'once between sessions' roll as well.