Goblin Squad Member
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I'm sure this has been brought up before but I couldn't anything so I apologize.
What does Goblinworks plan on including in PO to make the world breathe life? I'd love to see animate objects like moving windmills or flags blowing over settlements. I'd also like to see critters such as stray cats and dogs walking around settlements and deer in the wild.
These are just examples of things I believe bring life to a game and I'd love to see more ideas and/or confirmations on what the developers already have planned.
Cheers~
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Goblin Squad Member
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I agree this sort of "fluff" could easily be forgotten when so many (innovative) game-systems are waiting eagerly to be implemented.
Except it is not really fluff, but essential to a sort of well-being in a game for many of us. The many new gamesystems(and gameplay) that PFO will have are the Bread and Butter, but a detailed, immersive world is the Salt in my opinion. Not talking about top-notch nextgen graphics, but indeed stuff like an animation of flies buzzing over a swamp, a (non-targettable) Eagle soaring the air, that sort of thing.
My hope is that there are a few devs who are really into this sort of detail, and that they (at one point) are allowed to go wild with this stuff, time and money permitting.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I agree this sort of "fluff" could easily be forgotten when so many (innovative) game-systems are waiting eagerly to be implemented.
Except it is not really fluff, but essential to a sort of well-being in a game for many of us. The many new gamesystems(and gameplay) that PFO will have are the Bread and Butter, but a detailed, immersive world is the Salt in my opinion. Not talking about top-notch nextgen graphics, but indeed stuff like an animation of flies buzzing over a swamp, a (non-targettable) Eagle soaring the air, that sort of thing.
My hope is that there are a few devs who are really into this sort of detail, and that they (at one point) are allowed to go wild with this stuff, time and money permitting.
I actually really like the idea of seeing an eagle soaring above me. Lame I know... ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think that one of the things that made WoW accessible and more fun was how alive all the characters looked in their animations. The talking, the laughing, the head shaking, everything was super smooth and well done. Having emotes may not be a number one priority, and I know the visuals are going to play second fiddle to gameplay and rightly so, but having a visually stimulating world where most importantly the characters feel alive so so key.
Also a big thing that keeps me coming back to a game is the music, GW2 is a good example besides WoW of getting both of these features well implemented.
I made a thread a while ago where I picked and choosed some things I think are good inspirations for what PFO could work from: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p9ps?My-collage-of-game-features#1
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Goblin Squad Member
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A lot of MMO's already have this: butterflies, flocks of birds, flies and mosquito's buzzing. It is non-targettable stuff, like some sort of .gif animation that is looping(flies buzzing) or triggered randomly (or sometimes even by proximity) and should not be taxing to the servers at all.
In fact, since this is all non-interactable stuff, it could well be all client-side anyway (though the proximity triggered stuff should require some signal from the server).
An old game like Everquest is already full of fluff like this, I hope GW will not forget about this. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Once we get the combat system working the way we want it to work we will begin the fractal process of filling in the visuals to increase the simulation of real-time actions. Things like rotating the character models so they face the things they're attacking, having some visual effect on a successful attack, establishing some fluidity to transitions between attacks and movement, etc. The degree to which we invest in such things will be Crowdforged.
This is the kind of thing that gets incrementally improved with each milestone, and yes, we will use this technology extensively. But it takes time to get them to work correctly and there are lots of things on the "environment to-do" list.
Just bear in mind there's a long-list and a lot of competition!
But yes ways for settlements to establish their own peculiar identity such as flags and crests, coat-of-arms and signils and so forth. Wonderful group identity and history stuff. :)
The odd fauna to go with the flora as background atmosphere (maybe even hunting material) of an organic world as well as a mineral world and water cycle world etc would be good too at some point as graphical hundreds and thousands on top of the rest of the cake.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Sadly, based on reactions to other request for "realism" features that do not tie directly into the core gameplay, I would say these are a long, long way off. If you could find ways to work them into core gameplay - for example, being able to shoot that soaring eagle to claim its feathers for some nature of crafting - then they might come sooner. But laughter animations, non-target-able environmentals, well that is all a load of /sit
:(
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Goblin Squad Member
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Sadly, based on reactions to other request for "realism" features that do not tie directly into the core gameplay, I would say these are a long, long way off. If you could find ways to work them into core gameplay - for example, being able to shoot that soaring eagle to claim its feathers for some nature of crafting - then they might come sooner. But laughter animations, non-target-able environmentals, well that is all a load of /sit
:(
Well, I'm not asking for things that cannot be targeted. Though, perhaps I got a bit sidetracked with the thought of the eagle soaring above me :)
I'd very much like to hunt deer in the wild and harvest resources from them. Or perhaps, tame the poor kitty meandering around my settlement. I'd like those things to be very much real indeed.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Sadly, based on reactions to other request for "realism" features that do not tie directly into the core gameplay, I would say these are a long, long way off. If you could find ways to work them into core gameplay - for example, being able to shoot that soaring eagle to claim its feathers for some nature of crafting - then they might come sooner. But laughter animations, non-target-able environmentals, well that is all a load of /sit
:(
I do not understand your reasoning. The non-targettable stuff that I describe are imo minor graphical enhancements that do not create much serverload, do not require the programming or balancing of some game-mechanic, could pretty much be clientbased and enhances the detail of the world and immersion.
I would think that asking for implementation of actual flying creatures that could be shot out of the air, and carry loot would be much farther out in development, due to the development resources that would take.
Also, the things I describe you can find in pretty much any MMO these days so we are not talking about pushing the envelop here when it comes to programming. For all I know, Unity could come with some stock assets of butterflies fluttering about, flocks of birds and so forth.
I am sure GW sees the River Kingdoms as more then just a grey/brown backdrop for a game of settlement-swapping.
Now when people are talking about Monks needing 5 different Flying Kick animations, then yes, I can understand GW being cautious about any promises. You are talking about hundreds of role-specific animations that need to be implemented, tweaked and made look good without swords clipping through backs and so forth.
Not the same as looping an animation of buzzing flies above a swamp or having a moving windmill(already in Everquest in '99). :)
EDIT: Just found out on Unity forums that stuff like a flock of birds can simply be implemented as a particle effect, triggered/scripted at a particle emitter position. Come to think of it, Everquest has a druid spell that shows a swarm of bees surrounding the player or target, which is a particle effect. It should be easy to have a particle trigger at some hive hanging in a tree, and voila!
I agree that this stuff is not critical for any true gameplay, but it sure enhances the environment and simply does not seem like a lot work.
Well, probably quit a bit of work, but not the type of bug-crushing, balancing-nightmare, mechanics-tweaking work that is the rest of PFO.
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Goblin Squad Member
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They are using that phrase for Early Enrollment. However I think they are planning to lose the "minimum" at some point. :)
Even so, if I was a dev tasked with landscaping, I might take pride in giving it a bit of an extra touch already when I am working on it anyway.
But yes, I do not expect to see beehives swarming with bees in Q3 2014 yet. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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My statement was not meant to disagree with the importance of it. I find things like this more important than say... faction PvP. But the negative feedback over an animation for simply sitting on the ground was very dispiriting and disillusioning for me. Just old bitterness.
I can understand that, I did not know that a /sit animation was shot down. I realize that animations are a lot of dev-work, however I hope that something like /sit will make it into the game some time.
Was it just /sit, or sit in chairs? Because the latter is a LOT more work imo. I think I can remember that thread now: wasn't it specifically about sitting in chairs? Where problems with collision and serverload and size-differences and such could occur? Or did they shoot down a simple /sit on the ground emote too?
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Goblin Squad Member
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EDIT: Just found out on Unity forums that stuff like a flock of birds can simply be implemented as a particle effect, triggered/scripted at a particle emitter position.
Was wondering about this: Good someone took the initiative and looked. :) Hopefully the Unity Asset store will be a useful resource.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My statement was not meant to disagree with the importance of it. I find things like this more important than say... faction PvP. But the negative feedback over an animation for simply sitting on the ground was very dispiriting and disillusioning for me. Just old bitterness.I can understand that, I did not know that a /sit animation was shot down. I realize that animations are a lot of dev-work, however I hope that something like /sit will make it into the game some time.
Was it just /sit, or sit in chairs? Because the latter is a LOT more work imo. I think I can remember that thread now: wasn't it specifically about sitting in chairs? Where problems with collision and serverload and size-differences and such could occur? Or did they shoot down a simple /sit on the ground emote too?
Both on ground and in-chairs were discussed
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Goblin Squad Member
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Moving targetable/hunt-able critters and fauna would be really immersive. They would require a few animations, but those would also be useful when they implement familiars/mounts/AC's etc.
Put this on my sooner than later list please Ryan!
This will be essential for those with the ability to shapechange into animal forms, otherwise picking out a transformed druid that is following interlopers will be to easy. I imagine stealth with go a big way towards making this successful, as would 'Being's Good idea' if the Druid's name isn't hovering above their animal form.
Perhaps druids and other shapechangers could have a disguise skill that would allow them to change the name (and flags) above their heads. That way it would come down to an opposed skill check. or their name and flags could be automatically changed to the name of the animal/creature that they've changed into.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't know whether anything will ever come of it, but I did once propose building an automated ecology where rabbits pop up, reproduce, and pretty soon wolves show up, and reproduce (thinning the ranks of the rabbits), and then goblins pop up hunting wolves and reproducing, then hobgoblins, then ogres and trolls, then hill giants & etc.
It was shot down, if memory serves, because Ultima Online tried it and the whole system came to a screeching halt because every time a rabbit popped up its little furry head someone would lop it off. Never got to reproduce.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't know whether anything will ever come of it, but I did once propose building an automated ecology where rabbits pop up, reproduce, and pretty soon wolves show up, and reproduce (thinning the ranks of the rabbits), and then goblins pop up hunting wolves and reproducing, then hobgoblins, then ogres and trolls, then hill giants & etc.
It was shot down, if memory serves, because Ultima Online tried it and the whole system came to a screeching halt because every time a rabbit popped up its little furry head someone would lop it off. Never got to reproduce.
That would probably be true of PfO. I assume that anytime an animal appears and is noticed by a player it will be killed. Unless the character is a nature lover or the player isn't an anti-social pyscho playing a computer game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It was shot down, if memory serves, because Ultima Online tried it and the whole system came to a screeching halt because every time a rabbit popped up its little furry head someone would lop it off. Never got to reproduce.
That was the reason...
Seems to me a viable ecology would require more land for the population most MMOs support. I would love to see a "living" ecology in an MMO.
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Goblin Squad Member
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at least during. not only.
And put simply... yes. In a way.
Something that isn't viable if the game went straight to OE could easily become a viable option through EE. That is part of the whole point of EE after all. Finding what is and isn't viable, and setting up the economy, power structures, borders, etc. that wouldn't have otherwise been "viable" if they had let loose a gajilion+1 players in at day one. Ryan was quoted saying something to that effect either earlier here or in a similar thread. Being's good Idea I think...
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Goblin Squad Member
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If part of locations can be varied by the players (e.g. settlement owners), at least the world will be different at different times that you walk by.
e.g Hey, that signpost wasn't there last time I was here.
Could also have cosmetic type components "dropped" in the region also, like a black cat or spotted dog.
I guess the point is not to have all of the habits of a "black cat" coded but to appreciate how it could be implemented for flavour at a future date and what region/location it could be tied to.
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Goblin Squad Member
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at least during. not only.
And put simply... yes. In a way.
Something that isn't viable if the game went straight to OE could easily become a viable option through EE. That is part of the whole point of EE after all. Finding what is and isn't viable, and setting up the economy, power structures, borders, etc. that wouldn't have otherwise been "viable" if they had let loose a gajilion+1 players in at day one. Ryan was quoted saying something to that effect either earlier here or in a similar thread. Being's good Idea I think...
SOrry, I might have ninja Deleted on you. For context, I asked if something that is only relevant in EE is worth putting time into development...then deleted it because it was not worth asking...surely that was not the good Brother's intent.
