Question on using a Staff

[Greylurker]

Just a small question I've never been able to find the answer to.

Lets say I find a Magic staff of some sort and Some but not All of the Spells in it are on my Spell List (EX: I'm a Pally or Ranger or some other class with a limited spell list)
I know I can recharge it as long as I have at least one of the spells but what are my limits on actually using it?

Can I use all the powers in it or just the powers that happen to be on my spell list (with a Use Magic Device to use the ones that aren't on my list)

[seebs]

I believe that if a specific spell is on one of your class spell lists, you can use that spell from a spell trigger item. You'd need UMD for other spells.

Not immediately obvious:
* Caster level. Do you have one? Do you get to use your caster level with the spells even if you have to use UMD for them?
* Casting stat. Note that the staff has a default spell caster level, but *not* a default caster stat, and there is no language saying you would use the staff's stat anyway. So what happens if you weren't a caster to begin with?
* Recharging. I'd argue you need a spell of the highest level the staff holds to recharge it from.

My answer is: If you *are* a caster, at all, then UMD allows you to use the staff "as if the spell were on your spell list", which means you can use your own caster level if it is better, and you use your normal casting stat, no matter what the staff might imply. (So, say, a cleric will still use wisdom even throwing sor/wiz spells from a staff.)

If you *aren't* a caster, the rules really don't tell us what stat to use, or what your caster level should be. I'd say CL 0, but I have no clue about the casting stat.

[threemilechild]

PRD wrote:

Using Staves: Staves use the wielder's ability score and relevant feats to set the DC for saves against their spells. Unlike with other sorts of magic items, the wielder can use his caster level when activating the power of a staff if it's higher than the caster level of the staff.

The wielder CAN use his own caster level, but the staff DOES use the wielder's ability score -- not a choice. I'd allow someone to UMD an ability score even though the blurb under that section just talks about scrolls.

Interesting that UMD puts the spell on your class list rather than emulating the class list the spell is on. (Which is more like the other UMD options.) Probably not all that significant unless you can design your own staves, or maybe you have a bloodline or domain spell that allows you to recharge via a spell not typically for your class.

[Cevah]

seebs wrote:

* Recharging. I'd argue you need a spell of the highest level the staff holds to recharge it from.

Using Staves:

Staves hold a maximum of 10 charges. Each spell cast from a staff consumes one or more charges. When a staff runs out of charges, it cannot be used until it is recharged. Each morning, when a spellcaster prepares spells or regains spell slots, he can also imbue one staff with a portion of his power so long as one or more of the spells cast by the staff is on his spell list and he is capable of casting at least one of the spells. Imbuing a staff with this power restores one charge to the staff, but the caster must forgo one prepared spell or spell slot of a level equal to the highest-level spell cast by the staff.

I recall reading that you can prepare a low level spell in a high level slot, but that it gains no benefit. [This is not the Heighten metamagic feat I am talking about.] This lets a caster with high level slots but insufficient casting stat use those slots. Unfortunately, I cannot recall where I read that. Assuming this is true, then...

You need a spell on the staff, prepared at the highest level spell of the staff, to recharge it.

/cevah

[Cleanthes]

Re: Caster level and casting stat for a spell cast from a staff using UMD, I'd say that *for that spell* you'd have to use the default caster level and casting stat for that spell, figured out just as it would be if it were cast from a wand. For instance, if you were casting a lightning bolt from a wand, it would be CL 5 and associated with a stat of 13, which is the minimum casting stat necessary to cast that spell. But since it's a staff, the CL has to be at least CL 8. Also, if the spell is 5th level or higher, the CL hs to be higher than 8th too: 9th level for a 5th level spell, 11th level for a 6th level spell, and so on. Same with the casting stat: 15 for a 5th level spell, 16 for a 6th level spell, and so on.
But if the same staff includes a spell that *is* on your spell list, you'd be able to cast *that* spell without a UMD check, and it would use either your CL and casting stat or the staff's default, whichever were better.