Can you fly as per the spell if you are tied up or grappled (so long as the grappling creature is one you could lift)? This is assuming of course that you has cast the spell in advance. If no, does this change if it is a spell-like ability?
I don't see why not. The spell version of fly is purely mental and doesn't require concentration.
you cannot move while grappled. If however you are the one in charge of the grapple you can after succeeding at a grapple check move up to half your movement speed in any direction. If you have a fly speed then you could bring your grappled foe with you. That's how I play it.
from Grapple Rules
Move
You can move both yourself and your target up to half your speed. At the end of your movement, you can place your target in any square adjacent to you. If you attempt to place your foe in a hazardous location, such as in a wall of fire or over a pit, the target receives a free attempt to break your grapple with a +4 bonus.
If you are grappled, no. Because you can't move, unless your break the grapple.
If You Are Grappled: If you are grappled, you can attempt to break the grapple as a standard action by making a combat maneuver check (DC equal to your opponent's CMD; this does not provoke an attack of opportunity) or Escape Artist check (with a DC equal to your opponent's CMD). If you succeed, you break the grapple and can act normally. Alternatively, if you succeed, you can become the grappler, grappling the other creature (meaning that the other creature cannot freely release the grapple without making a combat maneuver check, while you can). Instead of attempting to break or reverse the grapple, you can take any action that doesn't require two hands to perform, such as cast a spell or make an attack or full attack with a light or one-handed weapon against any creature within your reach, including the creature that is grappling you. See the grappled condition for additional details. If you are pinned, your actions are very limited. See the pinned condition in Conditions for additional details.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would absolutely argue that using your mind to "move" (as in the fly spell) would override the normal "cannot move" as part of a grapple. There is not one part of your body that has to move in any way to be able to fly as per the spell.
Using a fly spell requires only as much concentration as walking, so the subject can attack or cast spells normally.
What is the force that is stopping the OP from flying?
In my opinion, the spell has specific movement rules that override the general no movement clause of being grappled.
Not letting casters rule the world. It's not clarified within the rules that flying grants any exception, and you cannot move while being grappled unless you are in control of the grapple. From that, I say you cannot move, not even fly.
Not letting casters rule the world. It's not clarified within the rules that flying grants any exception, and you cannot move while being grappled unless you are in control of the grapple. From that, I say you cannot move, not even fly.
Hmm. I'm not sure it would help most casters even if they could do it, after all there is still a weight limit to Fly and most casters have an extremely low strength.
I'm considering house ruling this to allow for use while grappled, it doesn't make much sense not to and there doesn't seem to be much of a balance reason to keep it this way.
Thanks for the answers though guys.
Most grapplers intend for their opponents (or victims) to be immobilized. Allowing a caster with a Fly spell to circumvent that would be unbalanced. The caster could, theoretically, force a grappler into a position it doesn't desire. For example, over a cliff, or into a wall of fire, or a flank.
The Fly spell doesn't contradict or override the general rule in this case. Obviously you can house rule anything you want, but I would make sure your players know about it beforehand. Let the grapplers know what can happen to them if they grab the wrong caster.
Unless the metal "strength" is based off the physical.
There is no way to tell. Even at maximum load, a human wizard can fly faster than his normal movement if he were not carrying anything. A gnome actually gets to double his normal movement WHEN fully loaded.
Strength may just have something to do with actually holding on the the gear, not "lifting" it.
Who knows, but being pinned upside down in a sack while covered in tar and feathers should not limit ones ability to fly via the spell.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The way the game is set up, a creatures ability to fly or even 'easily pick up' the person grabbing them has no bearing on the rules. If you move away from the fly spell itself or flying think about this. If a supe rmouse some how grappled a collossal sized monster, that monster is as bound by the grapple rules as Two medium sumo sized wrestlers are. Even in the case of where the grappler's weight has no bearing on the monsters movement (any more than im bothered by a mosquito) they are still bound by those rules.
So as far as the rules go, If your grappled your grappled there is no special get out of it or move rule just because you fly. Anything that allows it is a house rule.
|
1) caster capable to fly aren't limited to a low strength. My magus is a strength+intelligence based character. There are a few cleric/druid/oracle/inquisitor build that can fly and those character often have respectable strengths, so "most casters have an extremely low strength" isn't true and isn't a balance factor.
2) the grappling/pinning character can have a leg hooked under a table or to some bough or have some other way to exert a larger resistance than his dead wight. Generally we don't describe the area with enough details to say if that is possible or not. I would rule in favor of the one controlling the pin and say that he has ways to prevent the grappled creature from flying.
3) the already cited rules say that the target can't move.
After all the above if a creature has been tied up but no one is holding the rope and it isn't tied to something, I don't see any reason why a roped or manacled creatures couldn't fly away.
To cite Komoda example: "being pinned upside down in a sack while covered in tar and feathers should not limit ones ability to fly via the spell.", I don't see why a bound creature with his head in a sack couldn't fly away (with all the malus for being blind, with limited dexterity and so on) if no one has tied it to something. But, in the same situation, I would allow a creature without flying to slither away if left unchecked for some time.
I would absolutely argue that using your mind to "move" (as in the fly spell) would override the normal "cannot move" as part of a grapple. There is not one part of your body that has to move in any way to be able to fly as per the spell.
Using a fly spell requires only as much concentration as walking, so the subject can attack or cast spells normally.What is the force that is stopping the OP from flying?
In my opinion, the spell has specific movement rules that override the general no movement clause of being grappled.
The Fly skill is dex based, and armor check penalties apply. (Even with the fly spell).
While nothing about that comes right out and says it... it strongly suggests that you still need to be able to move to fly.
There is also the weird bit about Str having an effect on how much you can carry while flying, despite not being a physical form of movement whatesoever. Another indication that your physical form is in some way involved.