Goblin Squad Member
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Will an eventual sorcerer or bard character be able to get much training progress from the magic skills that are going to release for wizards in EE? Or is their version of magic soon going down a different branch of the training tree (e.g. totally different skills that key off of Cha instead of Int) so there's not very much crossover between Charisma and Intelligence based magic planned for now?
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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Wizards and Sorcerers should have a lot of crossover on their cantrips for arcane weapons (and I believe we've set it up so those crossover abilities key off of both Int and Cha) and a few other features. They'll have different sets of specific role feats, for which there will not be a lot of overlap (but there might be some for feats that make sense for any arcane user but not for martial characters).
It's uncertain at this time how much overlap Bards will have with Wizards and Sorcerers. In tabletop, they don't use attack cantrips and bloodline/school attacks the way primary arcane casters do, so I suspect we'll focus them more on picking up cool bard feats that can go on martial weapons than on using wands and staves.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thanks that was a super fast response! Follow up question:
Are you planning any sort of indicators for skills like "this skill is part of the X,Y,Z archetypes" or "this skill is only for R archetype" as far as characters to start training in EE for something that looks like the traditional class/get the dedication bonus of classes that aren't implemented yet?
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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I doubt we'll be able to include it in the game UI, but we'll hopefully be able to let you know on the forums what we're thinking by that point. It's uncertain whether we'll have a finished design for all roles by the time EE starts, though, so it will be advice on the order of "you will likely get closest to X by focusing on [Y currently available feats]" and not "X will absolutely use [Y currently available feats] and [Z currently unavailable feats]."
Also keep in mind that even if you had the absolute list, you might have to make some compromises to get to currently available feats. For example, you can assume that Barbarian is going to want high Fortitude and Hit Points, which require a high Con to purchase higher levels. If the whole Barbarian skillset was in the game, you could get a portion of your Con increases from Barbarian-specific feats. In order to get your Con high to get more HP and Fort in prep for being a Barbarian when it's released, you might have to take different Con-related feats than you would if the Barbarian Con-related feats were available.
So, if you want to play Sorcerer, it's best to play a weak, watered down Wizzie during Early Enrollment? lol
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Goblin Squad Member
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Skills fall into 3 categories: role specific, cross-role, and general. If you're not sure about what exactly will be cross-role (ie. common to both wizard and sorcerer) then just train general skills (hp, fort, ref, will, etc.). You don't waste any xp on something you won't use later that way. It may be a little gimped just having those skills, but in the long run you're probably going to want to train them anyways, so why not train them while waiting for sorcerer to be released?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I get even less than future-sorcs do, to compliment my weak watered down rogueness. Plenty of time early on to work on those economic skills!!
On the bright side, it seems pretty easy to build the sorc and bard overlaps with already existing skill trees to be the first two new archetypes released; paladin might win a popularity contest but needs a warhorse but no mounts so I can't pin down where that falls. A lot more efficient than designing all new code for hand to hand combat, shapechange, or full pets.
Derailing my own thread, order of release guess:
Bard (adds many new goodies for players and group play compared to sorc)
Sorcerer
Paladin
----------- (maybe paladin first? but those top 3 whatever order)
Barbarian
Ranger
Druid
Monk
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think they are probably going to release the other core classes based on the amount of demand for them. I'm personally hoping that by the time they start crowdforging that we'll have descriptions on how they'll most likely implement each class (subject to change upon implementation of course.)
That is really for me, going to determine my vote. When I have some idea how combat and PvP work (through actually playing the game) and what the new classes will bring to the table in each regard is when I'll be ready to start talking about which ones I think we need to see next.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I get even less than future-sorcs do, to compliment my weak watered down rogueness. Plenty of time early on to work on those economic skills!!
On the bright side, it seems pretty easy to build the sorc and bard overlaps with already existing skill trees to be the first two new archetypes released; paladin might win a popularity contest but needs a warhorse but no mounts so I can't pin down where that falls. A lot more efficient than designing all new code for hand to hand combat, shapechange, or full pets.
Derailing my own thread, order of release guess:
Bard (adds many new goodies for players and group play compared to sorc)
Sorcerer
Paladin
----------- (maybe paladin first? but those top 3 whatever order)
Barbarian
Ranger
Druid
Monk
Nice thread Prox, I think this is going to be on a lot of people's minds as we approach EE. I pretty much agree with that order, it was established a ling time ago that Ranger and Druid had to wait a while (pet system issues) and Monk was the most "screwed" because the only way to prep one was going all out on general stuff like Hp's and saves.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I hope they add Alchemist(the class, not craft) soon*tm (maybe right after monk :D) need to mix that with some rogue for some great poison bonuses :D
Pfft, poisons. What you want are some high explosives! You ever see what happens to a dwarf in full armour when you drop a grenade down his breastplate?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Pfft, poisons. What you want are some high explosives! You ever see what happens to a dwarf in full armour when you drop a grenade down his breastplate?
Or, just as good, mixing up drugs like mutagens for fun and profit! Hulking out and dumping down mental stats, who doesn't like that?
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Goblin Squad Member
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My thinking is they of course will crowdforge what EE players want to have next, but they will weigh that against the amount of resources and time that goes by before it can be rolled out. Favoring giving us more to play with earlier in EE for longer testing of archetypes and synergy balancing overall.
I think from a design/getting the game running standpoint they're most likely to heavily favor classes like paladin/bard where a lot of the groundwork is laid and it adds a new ethos and diversity of features for players. Then sorc/barbarian that have groundwork but are a different flavor of something already in the game. Lastly getting into all new systems (traditionally hard to do right) like pets and the complete bottom up coding for monk.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Pfft, poisons. What you want are some high explosives! You ever see what happens to a dwarf in full armour when you drop a grenade down his breastplate?Or, just as good, mixing up drugs like mutagens for fun and profit! Hulking out and dumping down mental stats, who doesn't like that?
A sneaky assassin :(. Can't go losing my wits in the middle of a job now can I? It may be fun to completely mangle them, but the escaping part wouldn't even register. And that good sir, is bad for business (well my business anyways!)