After our first session, it became clear our party needed a front line combatant. Since my inquisitor was the best option, I decided to revise him from a crossbowman into a two-handed weapon wielder. In short, he needs a lot of work. Here's what I've got so far:
Race: Human
Deity: Pharasma
Alignment: LN
STR 16
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 14
CHA 8
Skills:
Climb +7 (1 rank)
Intimidate +6 (3 ranks)
Knowledge Arcana +5 (1 rank)
Knowledge Dungeon +5 (1 rank)
Knowledge Nature +5 (1 rank)
Knowledge Planes +5 (1 rank)
Knowledge Religion +5 (1 rank)
Perception +8 (3 ranks)
Sense Motive +9 (3 ranks)
Spellcraft +7 (3 ranks)
Stealth +8 (3 ranks)
Survival +8 (3 ranks)
Feats:
Shake It Off (teamwork feat)
Martial Weapon Proficiency (Greatsword)
Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
Improved Initiative
Traits:
Reactionary
Fate's Favored
Domain (or Inquisition):
Spellkiller Inquisition
Spells:
Orisons - Stabilize, Acid Splash, Detect Magic, Light, Read Magic, Disrupt Undead
1st Level - Divine Favor, Shield of Faith, Expeditious Retreat, Protection From Evil
Some things, though not ideal for such a build, cannot change. His race and deity are fixed, so I'm not sure how else to get a two-handed martial weapon without taking the feats. Pretty much everything else is up in the air. I'm flying blind over here.
I don't know how attached you are to the teamwork feats but consider the preacher (I think it's called) that trades them for re-rolls. Re-rolls are very very powerful.
Stats look good.
Can you take a one level dip into fighter for proficientcies? Or even Ranger.
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Do you need a great sword? Take a long spear and play a reach inquisitor?
The preacher archetype looks very tempting. It's definitely under strong consideration!
Hadn't considered dipping into another class, but I've never tried multiclassing and am wary of it.
I figured a greatsword was better because I'm going to be rushing into battle, not waiting for foes to come to me (and triggering AoO), but maybe I'm wrong?
I'm of the opinion that taking a feat for a weapon proficiency is suboptimal. There's generally other feats that you can take that will serve you better. Have you considered taking a long spear? It will help you control the battlefield while still having fairly nice stats on it.
If you really want martial weapon proficiency you can always dip a level into Fighter. It'll also give you a bonus feat and heavy armor proficiency to boot, but at the cost of losing an Inquisitor level.
I don't think I want to multiclass, but I agree taking a feat for a weapon proficiency does feel like a bit of a waste. A longspear doesn't quite fit what I originally envisioned, but I may end up taking it if it's my best option.
I would worship Gorum, but the deity doesn't quite fit my character concept. I'm lawful neutral and hunt immortals. Those who would cheat death or extend their lives by unnatural means are my quarry. That's why I picked Pharasma. If anyone knows of another deity who would work I'm all ears.
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Yeah just reread you post. How about two weapon? It's feat intensive so you will get little choice in feats but it's pretty good when bane kicks in if you take t he right feats. You'll need to rearrange stat though.
Other deities that grant greats words are all evil sadly. There may be an empyreal lord that fits but I'm can't think of one off the top of my head
A two-handed weapon better fits what I have in mind. I've been referring to Bodhizen's Guide to the Optimal Inquisitor and would like to be a "devastator", though I'm trying to keep an open mind. I know I'm not giving you guys much wiggle room.
After reviewing the other deities, there are a few I could see my character serving, though none are quite as fitting as Pharasma. Here are some possible alternatives and their favored weapons:
Imbrex: Dire Flail
Magdh: Scythe
Shyka: Light Mace
Achaekek looks like an awesome alternative. You may have won yourself a convert!
I'm conflicted about Power Attack. Let me see if I've got this straight. In exchange for a -1 penalty, my long spear will deal 1d8+3 damage (between 4-11). That's an average of 7.5 points of damage. Without the penalty, my greatsword will deal 2d6 damage (between 2-12). That's an average of 7 points of damage. So I'm hitting less often in exchange for slightly more damage? That doesn't seem like a fair trade.
What my above analysis does not take into account (assuming it's correct) are attacks of opportunity, which my long spear would provoke in abundance, adding significantly to my damage output. It also doesn't account for the increases which will occur when my base attack bonus reaches +4 at 8th level. Although, honestly, I doubt our characters will reach 8th level.
So, Power Attack does look it will yield better damage output, though I still do not like the idea of hitting less often, even if I will have more opportunities to actually hit. This thread also made me question the viability of Power Attack for 3/4 BAB classes.
Now, if you will excuse me, I will go crouch in the corner and wait to be corrected and told how horribly wrong my math is. Because it probably is. I suck at math.
EDIT: redcelt32, I wanna make sure I go first so I can throw my buffs on before jumping into melee. That's why I maxed my initiative.
Stats are good as well as the spell list. I know you said you are fixed on race but if you take half-orc you gain greataxe (no need for the MWP feat), Darkvision, +2 to Intimidate, a very good Favored Class Option for in Inquisitor, as as well as sacred tattoo:
Sacred Tattoo: Many half-orcs decorate themselves with tattoos, piercings, and ritual scarification, which they consider sacred markings. Half-orcs with this racial trait gain a +1 luck bonus on all saving throws. This racial trait replaces orc ferocity.
This dove-tails with Fate's Favored to get you +2 on all your saves and +2 attack and +2 damage with Divine Favor.
I also highly recommend Deepsight. Shooting a compostie long bow at 120 feet in the dark freaks your enemy out.
My Inquisitor just hit 4th level last night and he is by far my favorite character I have played yet. Those Judgements are the Swiss army knife of Pathfinder.
Have fun.
Half-Orc is super tempting. I love how Sacred Tattoo synergizes with Fate's Favored, and the weapon proficiencies are awesome.
That said, I'm already spread thin on skill points, so I wouldn't want to lose my Skilled racial ability. The Intimidate bonus isn't very useful either, since I dumped CHA. Not to mention the lost bonus feat.
Most importantly, I don't want to be a Half-Orc. It doesn't quite fit my character concept. If I could pass for human, sure, but that requires a trait or feat (or both).
My character concept has evolved over time, though. I may change my mind.
There is a trait where you can us Int instead of CHA for Intimidate. Your cutting wit is your Intimidate prowess.
True! I could take the Bruising Intellect trait and the Intimidating Prowess Feat and it would be the same as if I had a 16 CHA.
I'm not sure pumping up my Intimidate skill is worth such a heavy investment, though.
A fighter dip is certainly worth it if you want flexibility in armour and weapons. In my group we've been using whatever drops and unfortunately not had the luxury of getting attached to any one item/weapon.
The Preacher class is very cool an idea but remember, teamwork feats you gain are always active/ready/usable the rerolls from the preacher are pretty limited. At max you'll get 6 of these a day, do 6 uses of aggression, defense and warning out weigh 6 additional *feats*?
If you have the precise strike feat you could hit multiple times a fight for an extra 1d6 but with the preacher you get to force a reroll once per day? I struggle to think "worth it" especially since you lose Solo tactics and can't use your free teamwork feats without a partner anymore.
With power attack it lets you bypass the quickly reached ceiling in damage, which will be noticed quite quickly. Unless you have very deep pockets in your campaign you'll be relying on your strength (which is moderate) and your weapon for damage. It's also one of few feats that scale in power as the game goes on.
I do however recommend Judgement Surge for every Inquisitor, especially as a first level feat. Judgement Surge often puts you into the next bracket for your Judgements and in this case that's either +3 damage per attack or +2 on your attack rolls both amazing. You could power attack with no penalty or normal attack with a better bonus! You will be using Judgements all the time so the boost is huge.
Inquisitors are also very bad casters if you're doing more than 1 buff per fight, you'll find yourself quickly out of spells or wasting valuable spells this especially important as a frontliner, get up in the enemy grill ASAP. If I had to do 1 spell and only 1, I'd throw out a Bless and give the whole party +1 on their attack rolls.
Multiclassing an inquisitor is the worst thing you can do. Too many of your abilities are dependent on your level to make it worthwhile. The inquisitor does not need to have a really good weapon to do damage, his damage come from class abilities that scale up with level. Spending two feats or worse yet dipping a level of fighter is not worth what you give up
Combat reflexes is a good feat to have especially if you are going to be using a long spear. There are a couple of teamwork feats that allow you to give you attacks of opportunity when the condition of the teamwork feat is met. This will increase your damage more than anything else. Once you hit 5th level and get bane you may start to out damage the fighters. At this point the martials advantage is they have more attacks than you do, but combat reflexes changes that.
Also take a look at improved monster lore. While it does not directly add to your combat ability it does make it a lot easier to identify monsters. With improved monster lore you only need to put a single point into the knowledge skill and still have a reasonable roll to identify monster. If you put skill point in then it gets even easier.
If you're going down the Spell Killer route you might want to consider the Spell Breaker archtype (it will cost you all your amazing teamwork feats) but you'll absolutely shut down casters.
The most important thing I think you need would be to follow the Step Up feat tree (step up>following step>step up and strike). The biggest problem with casters is they can 5 foot step then cast without molestation. With Step up and Strike their attempts to step away incur both your penalty and a weapon in their face for their troubles (even further increasing their casting penalty).
Great advice, everyone!
The thing I like about the Preacher archetype is I can keep track of rerolls. I understand them. Teamwork feats on the other hand, with their varied conditions, can get confusing fast. But I agree. In the long run, teamwork feats are a lot more valuable, as long as you can keep track of them!
Okay! Okay! Uncle! I will give Power Attack a try. It's got to be doing something right if everyone's so nuts about it.
Judgement Surge looks like an awesome feat. Yoink! I'm taking it. Actually, I might take it instead of Power Attack. They both look awesome. I don't know! Maybe both! I will wait until 5th level when Bane kicks in to take Improved Monster Lore.
Combat Reflexes is another feat I wanna take because I have decided to use a long spear. I wanted to take Weapon Focus (long spear), but between Power Attack and Judgement Surge and Combat Reflexes I'm all out of feats! What's an inquisitor to do?
Half-Orc has a lot going for it, but while my GM did say I could revise my character, changing his race may be going too far. I also really don't want to part with the skill points and bonus feat. It's a tough decision.
[snip]
Now, if you will excuse me, I will go crouch in the corner and wait to be corrected and told how horribly wrong my math is. Because it probably is. I suck at math.EDIT: redcelt32, I wanna make sure I go first so I can throw my buffs on before jumping into melee. That's why I maxed my initiative.
No need to go to a corner. Power attack is the primary way to increase damage. But, with your 3/4 BAB, you are right to be wary. It is not something you want to use every swing. You must have it, but you can delay until 5th or 7th level.
If you are the primary front line guy, I have some questions for you.
What is your armor?
Who else is in your party, and what do they do?
These questions will help determine how to focus your character.
Right now I'm wearing Chainmail. I also decided to take my ranks out of Stealth. I figure as long I'm wearing medium armor my sneaky days are over.
As for the rest of the party, we have an Infernal Halfling Sorcerer, a Melee Archaeologist Bard, and a Caster Cleric of Pharasma. We've only had one session, but I suspect the sorcerer will charm/blast, the cleric will channel/buff, and the bard will fight alongside me.
Mithral Breastplate. +6 AC and -1 ACP. Counts as light armor and you could stealth just fine.
If really are giving up stealth, you really should consider mithral heavy armors since they count as medium and you can wear them with no issues. Mithral field plate will net you +7 AC with -2 ACP and Mithral full plate +9 AC with -3 ACP.
Looks like you are the anchor guy, meaning that the others will maneuver around you and you will be static then.
So, working off my fighter guide, we will use this for a guideline
1. I kill stuff
2. I do not die
3. I take care of my friends.
1. my recommendation is stay away from power attack until your strength is 18 or better. At around 5th, you should be able to afford a +2 belt. That raises your two handed damage from +3 to +6. With power attack it raises to +9, letting you do #1 very well.
For #2, you are only going to inflict 1 extra point of damage going two handed until your strength is 18 or better. AS the front line guy, you are going to take it on the chin (as you should) more than your party. To avoid having them constantly waste actions and spells healing you, you may want to grab a heavy shield and use a morningstar or short spear until you can do deal significant damage.
You do that because you have neither the hit points nor the ac to take a lot of damage until later in your career. Not being hit as often will let you live to the level you can inflict real pain.
You should go with some alternate feats instead of Martial proficiency and weapon focus, but if you want them a level of fighter is best.
Some alternates to consider:
Combat Reflexes, lets you attack when flat footed and more free hits
Dodge, avoid hits and death more easily
Toughness, survive the hits longer
Mobility, for moving into position and avoiding hits.
For #3, you need to focus on #1 and #2
If your friends are blasting and buffing, they should go first. You shouldn't be using your actions, feats or spells to do something they can do for you. You might want to look at some of your spells and trade them out for inquisitor specific ones as your ace in the hole.
Have you looked at the Repose domain? Works on almost anything and will help limit enemy actions, which might help your bard buddy get hit less often.
Don't forget you can trade out you team work feats as needed.
Hope this helps a little.
Mithral Breastplate. +6 AC and -1 ACP. Counts as light armor and you could stealth just fine.
If really are giving up stealth, you really should consider mithral heavy armors since they count as medium and you can wear them with no issues. Mithral field plate will net you +7 AC with -2 ACP and Mithral full plate +9 AC with -3 ACP.
Little expensive for 3rd level perhaps? But great when he could afford it!
Preacher - longspear- combat reflexes - power attack.
Those teamwork feats are poor and need willing and able friends. If you're going with the reach method they become even worse.
The re-rolls WILL save your, and your friends lives.
Mithral Breastplate. +6 AC and -1 ACP. Counts as light armor and you could stealth just fine.
If really are giving up stealth, you really should consider mithral heavy armors since they count as medium and you can wear them with no issues. Mithral field plate will net you +7 AC with -2 ACP and Mithral full plate +9 AC with -3 ACP.
Only for the purposes of move speed, not for proficiency.
Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor. A character wearing mithral full plate must be proficient in wearing heavy armor to avoid adding the armor's check penalty to all his attack rolls and skill checks that involve moving.
That said, mithral breastplate is still pretty amazing if you're trying to have a decent AC and still be able to stealth. It's only 3 less AC than full plate, but it doesn't require any extra effort to wear.
Only for the purposes of move speed, not for proficiency.
That said, mithral breastplate is still pretty amazing if you're trying to have a decent AC and still be able to stealth. It's only 3 less AC than full plate, but it doesn't require any extra effort to wear.
Hmm, not sure what I was thinking. Good catch.
If you are really looking to spend a feat on a weapon, choose EWP: Falcata. The falcata is the highest damage weapon in the game. It is also possible to get an EWP with a relatively inexpensive ioun stone if you have martial proficiencies. This makes a martial dip even better. The falcata or fauchard are a few of the weapons I think worth spending a proficiency on.
If you don't mind being LG, paladin is a way better dip for inquisitor than fighter. It gets you good aura (which is vital for litany of righteousness), smite evil, detect evil and +2 will saves in exchange for a fighter feat.
If you are set on a dip I don't know if Paladin is the best. Your low CHA won't allow you the sweet AC bonus/attack bonus when using Smite Evil. And you can already Detect Evil/Good/Law/Chaos.
Perhaps a dash of barbarian. You get all marital weapons, Medium armor you get the +10 to speed, and of course the Rage when you don't feel like casting or judgement or Bane. Basically as a last resort, Hail Mary, all the eggs in one basket, caution to the wind, Spartan-stand of death fail-safe.
But I think straight Inquisitor is the way to go.
Agreed. I'm gonna go straight inquisitor without any dips.
Also, everyone's arguments in favor of being a half-orc are very persuasive, but I have a very specific image in mind and the half-orc does not fit it. I would be foolish not to make my next inquisitor a half-orc, though.
Here's my Preacher Inquisitor. Since I don't want him to have to rely on buffs from others, I maxed his initiative so he could buff himself. He's supposed to be a pretty self-reliant guy, since he spent many years traveling alone before joining his current party. He's going to wield a long spear and wear chainmail.
Race: Human
Deity: Pharasma
Alignment: LN
STR 16
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 14
CHA 8
Skills:
Knowledge Arcana +7 (3 ranks)
Knowledge Dungeon +7 (3 ranks)
Knowledge Nature +7 (3 ranks)
Knowledge Planes +7 (3 ranks)
Knowledge Religion +7 (3 ranks)
Perception +8 (3 ranks)
Sense Motive +9 (3 ranks)
Spellcraft +7 (3 ranks)
Survival +8 (3 ranks)
Feats:
Improved Initiative
Combat Reflexes
Judgment Surge
Traits:
Reactionary
Fate's Favored
Domain (or Inquisition):
Spellkiller Inquisition
Spells:
Orisons - Stabilize, Acid Splash, Detect Magic, Light, Read Magic, Disrupt Undead
1st Level - Divine Favor, Shield of Faith, Expeditious Retreat, Cure Light Wounds
Not sure how I feel about the build. I think I could have specialized more and been a better tank, but instead I chose to do a little of everything and may have spread myself too thin. We'll see.
big fan of a 2lvl fighter dip for melee inquisitor - heavy armor, 2 combat feats, and the reality that games get to lvl20 so infrequently? whats not to like!
feats like Judgment Surge and Extra Bane and traits like Magical Knack can help reduce some of the pain on the level-dependent stuff also.
Edric is the frontline fighter in our Carrion Crown game, and he is a blast to play (even though Im stuck with a sub-optimal melee weapon at the moment).