I'm supposed to be playing my gunslinger in the morning in an Aethercon event, but realized I hadn't finished equipping him. Including buying his starting ammo. As I understand it, for society purposes, I buy ammo at the cost that Gunsmithing says for crafting ammo.
Thus
10% for bullets + powder (so a sp for a bullet + 1 gp for powder)
or
50% for alchemical cartridges (so 6gp per cartridge)
Do I have that correct? Because it looks like I'll need to buy just a couple of cartridges and switch to my melee weapon much of the time.
Thanks Nefreet. Those crafting prices certainly make it worthwhile to stick to powder and bullets between fights.
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Here are my most up to date cost breakdowns:
Black Powder: 10gp (1gp for a Gunslinger)
Regular Bullet: 1gp (1sp for a...)
Alchemical Silver Bullet: 3gp (3sp for...)
Silver Bullet: 25gp (2gp, 5sp)
Elysian Bronze Bullet: 21gp (2gp, 1sp)
Cold Iron Bullet: 2gp (2sp)
Adamantine Bullet: 61gp (6gp, 1sp)
30 Mithral Bullets: 280gp (28gp)
10 Ghost Salted Bullets: 210gp (201gp)
Paper Cartridge: 12gp (6gp)
Alchemical Silver Paper Cartridge: 14gp (7gp)
Cold Iron Paper Cartridge: 24gp (12gp)
Adamantine Paper Cartridge: 72gp (36gp)
Elysian Bronze Paper Cartridge: 32gp (16gp)
Mithral Paper Cartridge: 262gp (131gp)
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Zan,
don't sweat the cost of ammunition too much. Early on, yeah, it seems like a lot, but later it is no big deal. Trust me.
I've gone through as much as 300gp in ammunition in a scenario (ok, so a lot of that was adamantine paper cartridges, but...
Think of it this way. Alchemists fire is 20gp/flask. If you need it, it was cheap. You need your ammunition, so start thinking that it is cheap. At least you aren't going to need to copy spells into a spell book, or drag around a pet.
It all comes down to perspective. Think about it... a typical barbarian will be raging in melee all the time... getting hit a LOT. He'll be burning up a lot of Cure Light Wound wand charges, at 15gp/charge!
Oh, it won't be a problem at all once I hit level two as I'll have the Abundant Ammunition spell. It's just makes things tight for the first scenario. It actually came out okay - have a full powder horn w/ ten matching bullets (plus the gun already loaded) plus eight cartridges. That should get me through the scenario I would think.
I had forgotten that actually. Thanks for the reminder; I need to be especially cautious of misfire since I'm playing a mysterious stranger.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Especially with mysterious stranger, be *very* careful before firing both barrels of a double barrel pistol. Especially with alchemical cartridges. It's two seperate attacks, which means if the first attack is 3 or less, and the second attack is 7 or less, your gun is destroyed. (unless you have a grit to save it.)
That's a little over a 5% chance of the gun being destroyed each time you fire both barrels.
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There is a scene in the movie "Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man" where one of the protagonists is using a 454 Casul, a very uncommon weapon with extremely expensive ammunition, and every time he fires it he's mutters the cost of each shot. It can certainly seem like that with a gunslinger at first - you feel like you might as well be shoving gold pieces down the barrel of your gun - but it gets better.
If using a double-barreled pistol I cannot recommend strongly enough investing in the reliable enhancement. It can be a real lifesaver.
Once you have gun training and iterative attacks and are thus no longer relegated to dribbling out a single straight-die damage attack each round it can be a very useful strategy to mitigate the danger of misfires by restricting yourself to using just a single barrel. It may seem counter-intuitive but I've had three (yes, THREE!) guns blow on me in a single PFS session, and of course it can be very useful to keep something uncommon like (adamantine, ghost salt, etc.) loaded in the second pipe for "special occasions".
And never, under any circumstances, try to fire a bead from a necklace of fireballs. Ever.
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This is disputed.
Firing both barrels is the same action. It's two attack rolls, yes, but it's akin to firing two Scorching Rays at the same target. The rolls are made at the same time.
Some people argue the gun is destroyed (or "wrecked", if it's magical), and some people argue that it didn't have the broken condition when the misfire occurred.
No FAQ has been issued yet.
(This was in response to FLite)
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I play a musket master and one of my backups is a MW Pepperbox my character calls 'Discetion' for 'oh hell' moments and using my Explosive Missile discovery.
The way I have it set up is I have 2 each of Silver, Adamantine and cold iron in it. That way I can whip 'discretion' out, roll over to the right barrel and pop off a shot. Half the time out of touch range.
I think I've use my iterative attacks maybe seven times since I got them. More often than not I use vital Strike.
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What isn't disputed? ;)
I'll not delve too deeply into that debate, suffice to say I can see both sides of that argument. Considering the truly astonishing damage a well-constructed gunslinger with a double-pistol can rain down upon the enemy it is not unreasonable to err on the side of risk - you are holding a fist full of explosives after all - though the gunslinger's extremely spiky and uneven damage-curve often feels like enough of a bite-in-the-ass.
I think the gunslinger reputation suffers because of a certain bias and because people remember the big-hits - the time you drop a dragon in a single round with a wall of lead - but not the numerous misfires, crap range, or the 5+ levels you spent dinking out base die damage. I've seen other classes dole out the same damage as a gunslinger, and far more reliably too, but without the same "flash".
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Made it through my scenario without a misfire (although I would have had I had a cartridge load) and without running out of ammo.
No intention to get anything fancier than just regular pistols at any point. A Reliable weapon is something I'll be wanting to obtain as soon as I can afford to.
I'll also be taking Rapid Reload at third so I can stick to the safer bullet+powder as much as possible. Deadly Aim will just have to wait.
And I just now realized that I didn't once take Point Blank Shot into account for that entire session. Oops.
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Since I'm currently playing a musket master, I do agree that the alchemical cartridges are expensive, and I do think about the cost of firing my gun every round, but someone mentioned an item from the Ultimate Equipment guide that I'm going to be buying once I get one more fame point.
Easy summary, bag of holding for bullets, black powder and the gunsmith's kit, plus once per round as a swift, bullets just jump in your gun! (I can't help but thinking about the scene from Who Framed Roger Rabbit! when Eddie loads the cartoon gun.)
I plan on keeping my paper cartridge bullets handy, just in case I need to use a move action to reload, but this bandolier will at least let me start making move actions to actually move.
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Oh, it won't be a problem at all once I hit level two as I'll have the Abundant Ammunition spell. It's just makes things tight for the first scenario. It actually came out okay - have a full powder horn w/ ten matching bullets (plus the gun already loaded) plus eight cartridges. That should get me through the scenario I would think.
Don't worry too much about abundant ammunition. It takes a standard action to cast, so blows a full round of shooting. I only use it if I am going to be shooting adamantine bullets. I will ask my local spellcaster if they are willing to memorize it for me, since their spell will last a LOT longer than an Oil... but even then there are better things to do than cast the spell.
Rare will be the scenario that you shoot 10% of your earnings out the barrel of your gun, so go ahead and shoot! In fact, an extra round of shots will often save more money (from healing that doesn't have to happen) than you would have saved with the spell.
Oh, and something to keep in mind, especially if you are using a pistol. You'll want ways to be able to keep your 5' steps, even through difficult terrain!
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Since I'm currently playing a musket master, I do agree that the alchemical cartridges are expensive, and I do think about the cost of firing my gun every round, but someone mentioned an item from the Ultimate Equipment guide that I'm going to be buying once I get one more fame point.
The Beneficial Bandolier is not legal for PFS:
Equipment: All items on pages 208–325, except ampoule of false blood, beneficial bandolier, bone razor, bracer's of falcon's aim, cauldron of the undead, collar of the true companion, darkskull, horn of evil, otherworldly kimono, orb of foul abaddon, quick runner's shirt, robe of the archmagi (black), stalker's mask, and talons of Leng are legal for play.
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Until I can find something better, my plan for my unborn Gunslinger is to pick up a Cracked Purple Vibrant Prism Ioun Stone and ask my friendly neighborhood arcane caster to refill it between combats using a wand of Abundant Ammunition that I will also purchase.
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Until I can find something better, my plan for my unborn Gunslinger is to pick up a Cracked Purple Vibrant Prism Ioun Stone and ask my friendly neighborhood arcane caster to refill it between combats using a wand of Abundant Ammunition that I will also purchase.
That's a good way to use special material bullets!
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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This is disputed.
Firing both barrels is the same action. It's two attack rolls, yes, but it's akin to firing two Scorching Rays at the same target. The rolls are made at the same time.
Some people argue the gun is destroyed (or "wrecked", if it's magical), and some people argue that it didn't have the broken condition when the misfire occurred.
No FAQ has been issued yet.
(This was in response to FLite)
Hmm... I think the furthest I am willing to give on this one is: The misfire had not occured when the trigger is pulled, so the second shot does not suffer from the increased chance of misfire.
So it is only misfire on 3 or less on the second shot, for a probability of 0.15*0.15 or ~2%
But still, if they both misfire, no matter what, you now have to apply both misfires to the gun, and whatever order you apply them, the first one breaks the gun, and the second one wrecks/destroys it.
Otherwise it's like saying "Okay, you hit me with two scorching rays, but they hit at the same time, so each one hits me at full health, and I just take the damage from the highest one."
Sorry, discussion for another thread probably.
Back on topic, I am looking forward to playing a musket master at some point, I just haven't been able to figure out what race I want to build him as.
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I checked this out and I like this idea also. As long as you shoot 3 times in one combat, you'll stay in the positive. (Paper Cartridge = 6gp, 1 charge from wand = 15gp) Plus, even if you don't, it's almost like buying all your ammo in advance and won't have to keep track of ammo, just charges and rounds.
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I wanted to add something. Not sure if this applies to your situation as you may be above level 1.
If you are playing level 1 scenarios, you don't really have to bother tracking ammo purchases.
Since you get free rebuilds prior to level 2 I usually don't worry about consumables until you hit level 2. That's when your character is locked in.
May keep the accounting down for the first few mods anyway. :)
You still have to track consumables, as you don't get that money back on the rebuild. You have, in fact, spent it.
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You still have to track consumables, as you don't get that money back on the rebuild. You have, in fact, spent it.I wanted to add something. Not sure if this applies to your situation as you may be above level 1.
If you are playing level 1 scenarios, you don't really have to bother tracking ammo purchases.
Since you get free rebuilds prior to level 2 I usually don't worry about consumables until you hit level 2. That's when your character is locked in.
May keep the accounting down for the first few mods anyway. :)
This. If you buy and use an consumable, then it's been bought and used. You can't return it for a refund.
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My solution for mitigating the cost of ammo was a single level Cleric (Varisian Pilgrim) dip, a spring loaded wrist sheath and 2PP wand of Abundant Ammunition. In 6 levels, besides the initial investment of cartridges, powder and bullets I havent spent one thin copper more on ammo. I have burnt through the wand and am 10 charges into my second but PP is cheaper to me than GP.
And what about the guns itself? You start with one, but can you buy others normally and whatnot? I still don't understand the differences between paper cartridge and bullets/powder. And also why use a pistol/double pistol when you can use pepperboxes.
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I'll answer the reason for the paper cartridge. As a musket master, my time to reload is a Full Round. With Rapid Reload, it's a standard. When using paper cartridges, it becomes a move. Later, I'll be able to reload a musket as a one handed weapon, making it free. The main problem with the paper cartridge is that if I roll a 1, 2 or 3, regardless if it's enough to hit, it blows up in my face and I have to take a round to fix my gun.
As for buying more guns/pepperboxes, I'm not sure on those points and hopefully someone will be able to answer those questions.
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I've been assuming that I'd be able to buy a backup gun once I have the gold for it.
BigCoffee, the difference is that paper cartridges can be loaded faster, but cost considerably more and add to your misfire chance. Misfire chance is especially dangerous for me because I can't quick clear. Which is why I have every intention of buying backup gun(s) ASAP.
And ammo/powder takes longer then a full round for muskets?
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Nope.
Loading a musket takes a full round action using regular ammo/powder combo and without feats or abilities.
Each time you take a feat/ability that quickens the reload speed, it takes it down by a tier.
It is a standard action to load each barrel of a one-handed early firearm and a full-round action to load each barrel of a two-handed early firearm.
With rapid reload, it takes it down a tier.
Benefit: The time required for you to reload your chosen type of weapon is reduced to a free action (for a hand or
light crossbow), a move action (for heavy crossbow or onehanded firearm), or a standard action (two-handed firearm). Reloading a crossbow or firearm still provokes attacks of opportunity.
All alchemical cartridges reduce the reload speed by another tier.
Alchemical cartridges make loading a firearm easier, reducing the time to load a firearm by one step (a full-round action becomes a standard action, a standard action becomes a move action, and a move action becomes a free action), but they tend to be unstable.
Finally, as a musket master, you get this ability.
Fast Musket (Ex): At 3rd level, as long as the musket master has 1 grit point, she can reload any two-handed firearm as if it were a one-handed firearm. This deed replaces the utility shot deed.
Hopefully that clears things up a little.
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And what about the guns itself? You start with one, but can you buy others normally and whatnot? I still don't understand the differences between paper cartridge and bullets/powder. And also why use a pistol/double pistol when you can use pepperboxes.
Pepperbox COST. 3,300 gp (before 5% Artisan store discount) for a single pepperbox compared to the 2,050 gp cost of a MW double-barreled pistol.
So rapid reload, cartridge and fast musket makes reloading a free action. But with only rapid reload and fast musket, along with powder and ammo, it is a move action?
And I'm guessing the weapon you start with cannot be upgraded to masterwork, so one of your first purchases will be a MW weapon of the type you like?
I believe that Society still allows Gunslingers to upgrade their starting gun to a masterwork for 300gp as per the Gunsmithing feat.
But your starting weapon can only be a pistol, musket or pepperbox? No double pistols?
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So rapid reload, cartridge and fast musket makes reloading a free action. But with only rapid reload and fast musket, along with powder and ammo, it is a move action?
Correct. Each one of these can be used individually to quicken reloading.
Without any = Full Round action
1 of the items = Standard
2 of the items = move
all 3 = free
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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The other difference between pepperbox and double pistol is that the peperbox gets 6 shots before you need to reload, but each shot is one attack action. The DoublePistol has 2 chambers, and you can fire *both* as a single attack action, allowing you to make two attacks for the price of one. (at -4 to hit, but when you are targeting touch, you ususally don't care.)
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In regards to the pepperbox, you are also limited in purchasing it based on your Fame since all firearms, save your starting weapon, are not "always available."
I can not stress enough to a new Gunslinger player that they should protect, baby and NEVER sell their starting firearm. If it explodes (destroyed condition) and isn't repaired with a Make Whole spell by the end of the scenario, you can't buy a new one until you have enough Fame. If you sell it, you only get a tiny amount of GP for it (I can't recall the starting firearm's resell value - like under 50GP).
Treat that starting pistol, musket or shotgun like your firstborn.
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Agreed. Remember that you can upgrade it to masterwork, which means you can then enchant it.
Also, she likes it when you show loyalty to her. She'll give you a crit against the BBEG after you were hog tied and dropped into the ocean if you treat her right. Or against the Herzrou.
Vera, we've got a couple of bullets with GM Torch's name on them. Still not sure why you took pity on him, but it won't happen a second time. Plus, we've got plenty ready for Krune, right?
Vera's been my only gun, and we don't see the need for any others!
Unlike those silly pistoleros who keep changing their guns.
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Agreed. Remember that you can upgrade it to masterwork, which means you can then enchant it.
Also, she likes it when you show loyalty to her. She'll give you a crit against the BBEG after you were hog tied and dropped into the ocean if you treat her right. Or against the Herzrou.
Vera, we've got a couple of bullets with GM Torch's name on them. Still not sure why you took pity on him, but it won't happen a second time. Plus, we've got plenty ready for Krune, right?
Vera's been my only gun, and we don't see the need for any others!
Unlike those silly pistoleros who keep changing their guns.
Not just pistoleros Jayne...
Kyrie (my MM/Gren) has 3 guns
-Discretion: MW Pepperbox
-Ol' Painless: +1 Distance Musket
-'The Countess' +1 Conductive Double-Barrel Musket