The discussion about the rogue's weakness flares up often in these forums. Often mentioned are the numerous rogue talents that are simply too weak or too situational for anyone to take them.
Thus I tried to add some sauce to some of the weaker ones. This list does not contain rogue talents I consider good or ok in power as well as those that are just flavor or that fall under the category "Why the heck would I have to spend a RT for that? Any sane GM would allow me to do that anyway."
Rogue talents:
Assault Leader (Ex) - When you miss, allow a flanking ally to make a single melee attack. Your ally gains your sneak attack dice on this attack. Usable once per day and one additional time per day for every 5 levels of rogue.
Befuddling Strike* (Ex) - Opponents damaged by your sneak attack have a -2 penalty to attack rolls for 1d4 rounds. This penalty increases by 1 for every 4 rogue levels you have.
Bleeding Attack* (Ex) - Works as original. However the heal DC to stop the bleeding increases by 1 for each sneak attack die and any magical healing has to succeed on a caster level check (11 + half rogue level) or fail to stop the bleeding (however damage taken is still healed).
Camouflage (Ex) - Gain a +4 bonus to Stealth checks in certain terrains. When not moving the bonus is +10.
Canny Observer (Ex) - Gain a +4 bonus to Perception to listen to people and to find secret things. And a rogue with at least 1 rank in linguistics learns how to read lips.
Distracting Attack* (Ex) - Cause an enemy hit by your sneak attack to become flat-footed against 1 ally (you have to forgo your sneak attack damage). The ally gets half your sneak attack dice on attacks.
Esoteric Scholar (Ex) - Make a Knowledge check even when untrained. Usuble once per day and one additional time per day for every 5 levels of rogue.
Fast Getaway (Ex) - Use a withdraw as move action after making a successful sneak attack or Sleight of Hand check. Even if already moved this turn you may still take a 5 ft step as free action.
Hold Breath (Ex) - Hold your breath 2 rounds longer. Also gain +4 bonus on saves against inhaled poisons and cloud type spells (each time you take this RT the bonus on saves increases by 2).
Lasting Poison (Ex) - Poison applied to a weapon lasts for two successful attacks. Change: No penalty to attack.
Expert Leaper (Ex) - Make longer jumps and fall more gracefully. This ability counts as having 13 Dex, Dodge and Mobility for the purposes of meeting feat prerequisites.
Ledge Walker (Ex) - Move along narrow surfaces at full speed using Acrobatics. This ability counts as having 13 Dex, Dodge and Mobility for the purpose of meeting feat prerequisites.
Should you take both RTs you get Side Step as bonus feat.
Nimble Climber (Ex) - Stop a fall while climbing by making a Climb check. Damage dice from falling are only d4.
Positioning Attack (Ex) - When you hit, reposition yourself around the target. Usable once per day and one additional time per day for every 5 levels of rogue
Powerful Sneak* (Ex) - Treat all 1s on sneak attack damage dice as 2s. Change: No penalty to attack.
Resiliency (Ex) - Gain temporary hit points to avoid dying. Once the temporary hit points vanish you stabilize automatically. In case you took damage to bring you below your Con score when the ability activated, stabilize with just one hit point short of death.
Rogue Crawl (Ex) - Move at half speed while prone. You do not count as flat footed while prone. However you loose the benefit of uncanny dodge while prone.
Rope Master (Ex) - Move at normal speed when using a rope while climbing. +4 bonus to all skill checks involving a rope. Gain weapon proficiency with net, lasso & bola.
Stand Up (Ex) - Stand up from a prone position as a free action. You can make Acrobatics checks to avoid attacks of opportunity just as you would moving through an opponent's threatened area.
Swift Poison (Ex) - Apply poison to a weapon as a swift action.
Advanced rogue talents:
Confounding Blades* (Ex) Prerequisite: Slow Reactions - Target can't make AoO (just like Slow Reactions would do) and the target is slowed for 1 round.
Crippling Strike* (Ex) - Sneak attacks also deal 2 points of Strength or Dexterity damage (your choice).
Defensive Roll (Ex) Make a Reflex save to take half damage from a blow. changed to work on any attack dealing hit point damage.
Entanglement of Blades* (Ex) - Targets damaged by sneak attack may not make 5-foot-steps and treat all terrain as difficult.
Frugal Trapsmith (Ex) - Changed to Frugal Craftsman: Pay 75% of the cost when building a trap or crafting poisons.
Hide in Plain Sight (Ex) - Hide while being observed in any of your favored terrains (even those you did not get from this talent).
Knock-Out Blow (Ex) - Knock an opponent out instead of dealing sneak attack damage. Either 1 minute unconscious or 1d4 rounds staggered.
Opportunist (Ex) - Make an attack of opportunity when a target is damaged in melee. Gain half sneak attack dice on the attack.
Redirect Attack (Ex) - Redirect an attack that hits you to another target. Usable once per day and one additional time per day for every 5 levels of rogue.
Thoughtful Reexamining (Ex) - Re-roll any Knowledge, Sense Motive, or Perception check. Usable once per day and one additional time per day for every 5 levels of rogue.
New rogue talents:
Greater Magic (Sp) - Prerequisite: Int 12, Major magic - Cast a 2nd-level sorcerer/wizard spell once per day as a spell-like ability.
New advanced rogue talents:
Combat Excellence (Ex) - Prerequisite: Weapon focus - Gain weapon specialization with a weapon you have Weapon Focus for.
Cursed Wounds (Su) - Prerequisites: Bleeding Attack - Any damage you deal while sneak attacking can't be healed unless the healer succeeds on a caster level check equal to 11 + half your rogue level or a heal check with a DC of 25 + your sneak attack dice.
Whirlwind Stand Up (Ex): - Prerequisites: Stand Up - When you use Stand Up you may make a trip attempt against each creature within reach. Unless you have Improved Trip, you provoke attacks of opportunity however.
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i will look at these and give more detailed feedback later.
maybe we can trade notes on basic and advanced rogue talents?
i am curious about your opinion on designing talents away from the X/day paradigm...
at a cursory glance i really like the concept of granting allies your sneak attack! that's genius!!
Thanks that you like my ideas.
Yes, usable X per day is not something that is so fitting for a Rogue (except for the magic spell-like abilities). However I tried to make as little change as possible and mostly upgraded the once per day to once per day + 1 per 5 levels in rogue as some of the other talents have.
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given that you are going to stick with the X/day stuff, some feedback for your basic talents:
Assault Leader (Ex) - dig the changes here. might steal...
Befuddling Strike* (Ex) - glad this finally stacks. how about on concentration checks too?
Bleeding Attack* (Ex) - consider using the same DC as Master Strike (10 + SA + INT)
Camouflage (Ex) - i like the not moving bonus. cool. what is your reference to terrains? just 'not urban'?
Canny Observer (Ex) - meh
Distracting Attack* (Ex) - dig the changes here. might steal...
Esoteric Scholar (Ex) - meh. should give a bonus.
Fast Getaway (Ex) - so, i can move my full move, bust a sneak attack, then 5-step away at will? kind of too good methinks. this talent was already pretty cool. maybe the 5-step could be an advanced iteration?... what do others think?
Hold Breath (Ex) - check out ninja Slow Metabolism.
Lasting Poison (Ex) - not sure what to say.
Expert Leaper (Ex) - it is unclear what you want this ability to do. is the Dodge/Mobility bypass a tack-on or replacement for the current language of the talent? also, i don't like the bypasses - there is no precedence for such a privilege.
Ledge Walker (Ex) - as above. also the 'free Sidestep' thing.
Nimble Climber (Ex) - i always preferred Reflex rather than a second Climb check. just me. the d4's thing is weird.
Positioning Attack (Ex) - movement should be unprovoked through target's threatened/occupied area equal to rogue's base speed.
Powerful Sneak* (Ex) - better i guess. i like mine (bypass 1 DR per sneak attack dice)
Resiliency (Ex) - the part where if i take 100 damage but can reduce it to just 7 damage since that would put me at exactly death-minus-1 is pretty damn powerful!
Rogue Crawl (Ex) - how is this changed from the original?
Rope Master (Ex) - i think i like yours better than my stupid 'cowboy' attempt. will probably steal.
Stand Up (Ex) - nice. making it even better wouldn't be overkill either.
Swift Poison (Ex) - is this not already a swift action?
cheers!
Thanks for your comment ^^
Sadly I didn't have time to look at your stuff as well. I hope I can get to it on the weekend.
Assault Leader (Ex) - dig the changes here. might steal...
Thanks.
Befuddling Strike* (Ex) - glad this finally stacks. how about on concentration checks too?
I dunno. I think the attack penalty is good enough. It basically is the inverted bonus of inspire courage +1.
Bleeding Attack* (Ex) - consider using the same DC as Master Strike (10 + SA + INT) ('SA' is an abbreviation for 'number of sneak attack dice)
That is a good idea. Gonna use that.
Camouflage (Ex) - i like the not moving bonus. cool. what is your reference to terrains? just 'not urban'?
I got the idea from snipers in a guile suit. They can lie still for ages and practically invisible. And with some creativity you can construct camouflage for pretty much any terrain... try googling urban camouflage for some great examples.
Canny Observer (Ex) - meh
Yeah. Not top on my list either. However I find lip reading a pretty cool ability that is not covered anywere. Especially with a mute oracle on your team ;)
Distracting Attack* (Ex) - dig the changes here. might steal...
Thanks. My idea was, if a rogue meets a well armored target he has trouble hitting (especially with iteratives) he can transfer his sneak attack (or part of it) to the fighter with a higher atk bonus.
Esoteric Scholar (Ex) - meh. should give a bonus.
I just added more uses. It is meh ^^
Fast Getaway (Ex) - so, i can move my full move, bust a sneak attack, then 5-step away at will? kind of too good methinks. this talent was already pretty cool. maybe the 5-step could be an advanced iteration?... what do others think?
Well. The enemy can just take a 5 foot step on their turn and then full attack anyway. Although it could be an immediate action using up your next swift action?
Hold Breath (Ex) - check out ninja Slow Metabolism.
Oh yeah. Change it to that. Really... rogue gets 2 extra rounds while Ninja gets the time times 2 + delayed poison? Talk about a waste of a RT... especially since you can take ninja tricks anyway.
Lasting Poison (Ex) - not sure what to say.
I meant to say the poison has the full effect twice without the drawbacks. Poison is seldom useful and very expensive anyway.
Expert Leaper (Ex) - it is unclear what you want this ability to do. is the Dodge/Mobility bypass a tack-on or replacement for the current language of the talent? also, i don't like the bypasses - there is no precedence for such a privilege.
Ledge Walker (Ex) - as above. also the 'free Sidestep' thing.
The abilities themselves are pretty much worthless. I thought it would be nice if they would allow a rogue to bypass some feat prerequisites many consider a feat tax anyway.
Nimble Climber (Ex) - I always preferred Reflex rather than a second Climb check. Just me. the d4's thing is weird.
My idea was that he has trained climbing and falling so much he takes less damage from falls since he can adjust his impact.
Positioning Attack (Ex) - movement should be unprovoked through target's threatened/occupied area equal to rogue's base speed.
I just added more uses to this ability, but did not change the core machanic.
Powerful Sneak* (Ex) - better i guess. i like mine (bypass 1 DR per sneak attack dice)
That is also possible. In the end it would not matter much against a foe with DR, since the increased damage would be half the effect of -1 to DR. But against an unprotected enemy its +0,5 damage per die.
The main reason I like it however is that it makes SA more reliable. With the minimum throw of 2s you know you can't sink below a certain value even if you roll badly on damage. This can make some attacks safer (like taking out a low level mook in one blow to not sound an alarm).
Resiliency (Ex) - the part where if i take 100 damage but can reduce it to just 7 damage since that would put me at exactly death-minus-1 is pretty damn powerful!
Nono! The ability activates and gives you temporary hitpoints as usual. However if that does not bring you above negative Con it can't save you.
Lets say you are a rogue 10 and have only 6 Con. You got hit by an attack that brought you to -9. Resiliency actives and gives you 10 temporary hitpoints bringing you up to 1 meaning you can act and run away or something. After the duration expires you fall unconscious and stabilize at -5.
If you were brought down to -20 the Resiliency could not save you, because it would bring you to -10 which means you are still dead and the later part of the ability can't even activate.
Rogue Crawl (Ex) - how is this changed from the original?
Oh crap. I remember the prone rules wrong. You do not actually lose Dex while prone, just take -4 against attacks. Under this new light I'd reduce the AC penalty to -2. Strange... I do remember getting sneak attack against prone targets... or not?
Rope Master (Ex) - i think i like yours better than my stupid 'cowboy' attempt. will probably steal.
Thanks ^^. Bolas and stuff are rarely used. The need more love.
Stand Up (Ex) - nice. making it even better wouldn't be overkill either.
Yes. Because the avoiding AoOs mechanic is meant for movement anyway.
Swift Poison (Ex) - is this not already a swift action?
No. A move action. And since you only get 1 attack with the poison anyway, might allow a full attack anyway.
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Assault Leader and Distracting Attack -
the concept of transferring sneak attack dice is cool, possibly too cool, especially when combined with another benefit (like re-rolling or condition-bestowing) so my thinking right now is setting the parameter to half SA dice rounded down, and sticking with that for all SA transfers.
consider thus:
Assault Leader (Ex): Once per day, when the rogue misses with an attack on a flanked opponent, she can designate a single ally who is also flanking the target that her attack missed. That ally can make a single melee attack against the opponent as an immediate action, .
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Distracting Attack* (Ex): A rogue with this talent can make sneak attacks with subtle flourishes that disorient and distract her enemy. When she hits a creature with a melee attack that deals sneak attack damage, she can forgo the additional damage to cause the creature to become flat-footed against one target of her choosing until the beginning of her next turn. The rogue cannot designate herself as the creature gaining the benefit of this talent. Creatures with uncanny dodge are immune to distracting attack.